From gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us Mon Jul 7 10:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.sips.state.nc.us by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17043; Mon, 7 Jul 97 10:57:26 MDT Received: from aq.ehnr.state.nc.us by lists.sips.state.nc.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA05100; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:46:58 -0400 Received: from NRDEM03/SpoolDir by aq.ehnr.state.nc.us (Mercury 1.21); 7 Jul 97 12:57:56 EST Received: from SpoolDir by NRDEM03 (Mercury 1.30); 7 Jul 97 12:57:44 EST From: "Gautam Patnaik" Organization: EHNR/AQ To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:57:43 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Hello from gautam X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Gautam Patnaik" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <19DD7E54623@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us> Status: RO Dear Chita: It was indeed a pleasure meeting you at Houston. Your idea about making computer science studies available in non technical colleges is indeed a revolutionary idea. Orissa is now more attractive to power and mineral based industries. But, to make it attractive to software developers, along with the other advantages already mentioned, the abundance of good trained graduates in the field of computer science is definitely an added plus. It would be marvelous if somebody (especially somebody like you, from the area of computer science and involved in the faculty) would spearhead this effort. Since we last spoke I have been dwelling on this matter quite a bit. Being a son of a teacher all my life, I think I would have some idea as to how the faculty in Orissa would react, being involved in various local, and State Governments, I would be able to guess (to an reasonably accuracy) how the bureaucrats would react to such an idea. This suggestions are by no means to steal your thunder (You should be the only one credited to coming up with such an idea), but to add more to your thought process. Here is my two cents thought on the idea. These are the possible shortcomings that might be encountered for getting those classes started: - There is definitely a shortage of teachers in the major (non engineering) colleges, who have knowledge of computer science. If training was offered to the faculty in these colleges, the younger staff would be very likely to learn. But, they would also be very likely to migrate to the industry (The difference, between their present salary, and market place wages with the new training can be sometimes more than three times). My assumption would be that more than 50% of the staff would leave. - Providing training to the faculty (of all/most non engineering colleges), would indeed take a lot of resources and time. - There are many private companies/firms who provide computer training (though some of their training and personnel credentials can be questionable). These firms might think that the Government was taking away their business, and might be hostile to such project/proposal. - Providing training to, and at all the (non engineering) colleges in the State might be a herculean task. Failure to complete this assignment would lead to the failure of delivery of an good computer science curriculum program to the colleges, and thus, might leave the project in disgrace. Many in the Orissa might conclude that American initiated ideas are out of step with Orissa practicality, and thus genuine and far reaching projects like these might not get a welcome gesture in the future. - If the resources/funds are required from the State, the bureaucrats, and leaders would be very hesitant to initiate such projects, as they would be very reluctant to draw funding from other programs. Now that I have depressed you and myself enough, here some ways that might possibly used to overcome such ideas: - The State should form a committee (the best way to kill a program Ha! Ha!). No! seriously, if somebody like you can lead such a committee, then this August body should develop a master plan and have it's work cut out for themselves. The group/subgroups (so as to deliver reports quickly) should be small and have major responsibilities assigned to them by the State. This committee and it's various assignment will be referred many times below, but the main responsibility would be to ensure the excellence of the program. - First and foremost, this delivery of the course will be (initially) limited to few colleges, like B. J. B (I have too many friends from that college who would kill me if I did not include that first), Ravenshaw, and one or two more. The committee would ensure that this became the center of excellence for undergraduate studies in computer science. If this took place, then the committee would be assigned to duplicate this programs to a few more larger colleges, and ultimately the whole state. - The committee selects private firms or companies from proposals submitted by them that can teach such courses or just one course. For example let us say that there are ten courses, 1, 2,.. to 10. and firm A can teach course 1, firm B teaches 2 to 5, firm C teaches 6 and 7, and so on. These firms don't have to be from Orissa, but selected from a national level, the course or courses can be taught in either in the college classroom or in the firms establishment. The fees that the firms can charge are also regulated by the committee. I feel that this is the best way to merge the market place (firms that do provide training) and education. One does not need a Master's degree (or higher) in computer science to teach such courses. An undergraduate with sufficient experience can teach effectively. The credentials of the teachers and the fees for the course are ensured by the committee. The committee also conducts tests (this can also be also conducted by another firm or institution). The State is not required to invest any resources, except setting up the committee, and ensuring the Universities and colleges work with them. The colleges might be required to offer only classroom facilities, but not the hardware or software, as these would be provided by the firms. The course is not being subsidized by the State (that is something that the committee can take up later), and might have a much higher fees then the other curriculum. The committee or sub committee should help the students obtain loans from lending institutions. As long as the wages in the market place is lucrative, this computer science program would be attractive to prospective students (who right now also pay quite substantially for some training in some software). The committee also ensures that the firms charge or reasonable rates. committee This radical idea if implemented might initially make poor students shy of the program, but as long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel (good paying jobs) it might be worth the investment. The committee or sub committee looks into plans for loans for students or scholarships for needy students. This program also should be relatively quick (with heavy work load), for example a one year course for a student who already has a BA or BSc. degree, and two year for a student with an IA or ISc. degree, this makes it easier for poor students. Also, the schedule can be independent of the regular university class schedule, this will make it convenient for the students in the program to escape the strikes or other such disturbances by the general students. Chita I know that I have said a mouthful, and the above ideas can be classified as radical or pioneering, depends on whom you talk to. But, my firm belief is that, the less the program is dependent on the State for support, or the less involvement by the Sate, the more chances it has of being a success. I definitely do encourage you to pioneer the initiative to develop such a program. Wishing you and family all the best, Sincerely Gautam Gautam Patnaik, P.E. North Carolina Dept. of Environment, Health, and Natural Resources Division of Air Quality e-mail: gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us tel: (919)-715-6246 fax: (919)-733-5317 address: P.O. Box - 29580 Raleigh, NC - 27626-5317 From chitta Mon Jul 7 11:55:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18146; Mon, 7 Jul 97 11:55:30 MDT Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 11:55:30 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707071755.AA18146@cs.utep.edu> To: gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us Subject: Re: Hello from gautam Cc: chitta Status: RO Dear Gautam: I very much appreciate your criticisms/comments. I am trying to develop a master plan and thinking through all possible critisms now will save time later. So please feel free to argue/critic/etc. Now, from my experience the private institutions in Orissa are not good. They are at present `bad' trade schools. (There are good trade schools in Delhi and other metros.) What I envisuion in a B.Sc Computer Science (Hons) program is to include all fundamentals and some applications. The private schools may be (or become) good at some applications such as Excel/Lotus but we can not rely on them to teach the fundamentals. In US there are such schools run privately. The universities have a different role. I agree with the cost part. As soon as my master plan is ready I plan start a campaign for people (Oriyas) to -- donate computers -- sponser the training of a lecturer -- pay forthe installation of a/c in the computer center etc for their favourite college. I may be overly optimistic but with aconcrete plan, I think I can convince people to do that for some of the popular colleges (which have a lot of graduates here). On the issue of loosing the lecturers after they are trained, We will train them mostly in theoretical/fundamental stuff. I myslef do little programming besides using Latex. (Dr. Bhuyan from Texas A&M even does not do that much.) We would not be able to get a job in a company which is looking for programmers. I would think after the training the lecturers will be in the same boat. I envision only a very few leaving to industry. Some may leave for higher studies though. May be we can incorporate both our ideas. Train lecturers in the basics/fundamental/theoretical stuff. Hire private instructurs for some of the application stuff. Thanks again. Chitta (ps-- I will send you a document in a day or two and you can suggest more comments.) ~c chitta . From sunil@kbyte.com Wed Jul 9 12:28:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17312; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:28:24 MDT Received: from sabatp3.aspectdv.com ([38.247.136.218]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA22143 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <33C52A9E.433B@kbyte.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:31:58 -0700 From: Sunil Sabat Reply-To: sunil@kbyte.com Organization: KBYTE Enterprises, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: C Baral Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! References: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO C Baral wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Proposed B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science program in Orissa Colleges > --- How you can help > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To increase computer trained human resources in Orissa > so as to reach a critical mass to be able to attract > multiple software related companies to Orissa, > I orally presented a proposal to develop B.Sc (Hons) Computer > Science programs in Orissa colleges and got very positive > responses from the ministers, the secretaries, other > organizers of the Invest Orissa symposium, and many OSA members > that I talked to. > > The program involves retraining 3-4 Maths and Physics lecturers > (per college) in Orissa Colleges that have Maths/Physics honours programs, > in Computer science who will be teaching the B.Sc (hons) courses. > Because of the existing infrastructure, such as building and classrooms, > this proposal is a low cost proposal. Also, because of the ultimate > goal of having it all across Orissa it is not focussed on > a particular region, and besides producing a large number > of computer science graduates it will increase the visibility > of computer science in all corner of Orissa -- taking Orissa > on the path of becoming a silicon state. > (The detailed proposal is available at > http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/orissa/bsc/ and will > also be sent in an accompanying mail.) > > The ministers and the secretaries were very enthusiastic about > implementing the proposal and encouraged me to write it down > as quickly as possible. The current chief secretary, Mr. Sudhanshu > Mishra discussed with me for about 30 minutes and gave his word > that he will implement the idea. (He said: > ``Consider this done''.) The > deputy chief minister Hon. Basanta Biswal and the industries > minister Hon. Niranjan Patnaik also liked the idea very much > and Hon. Biswal suggested that we should start the program > at 4-5 colleges first. (This consideration > of his about the practical implementation indicated to me that he was > serious when he said he liked the proposal.) > > NOW, this proposal also provides an opportunity for all > relatively well-off Oriya well-wishers (particularly in > ornet and OSA) to contribute to a concrete plan of action > towards a visible development of Orissa. > > Because of the cost (even if it is low) the Orissa govt perhaps will go > relatively slow in implementing this proposal, particularly > from expanding it to the initial 4-5 colleges to colleges > all across Orissa. My vision is that colleges such as > Keonjhar College, Bhawanipatna college, N.C College Jajpur etc. > that already have B.Sc (Hons) in Maths/Science programs > offer the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Sc program -- not > just the BJBs and Ravenshaws, and your help > will make this vision come sooner that later. > > Here is what you can do. > > Pick one or more colleges where you would like such a program > to be there as soon as possible. (It could be one of your > alma mater; it could be the college in your home town; > or it could be a college you have a soft spot for some other > reason.) > > Please pledge if you would like to do one or more of the following > for the college of your choice or to a general fund for > the program.) > > (i) Donate a computer -- including its shipping cost. > (perhaps -- the computer could be named after you) > (ii) Sponsor the training of a lecturer in that college. > (iii) Pay for the installation of a/c for the > computer room of that college > (iv) pay $X for computer related books > (v) pay $X towards a general fund to be used in the > development of the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science > program in that college. > (vi) For faculty in Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Information > Systems and Software and Hardware Scientist/programmers/developer: > You may pledge to > be in the advisory board of this program and promise to > spend X months/weeks in each Y years in > teaching/doing research in a computer center/institute/dept in > the city Z in Orissa, > provided you are given real-time internet (web/email) > access there. > (This will add a new meaningful dimension to your vacations in Orissa.) > > Together with my proposal I will be sending > the pledge information to the Orissa govt and I believe > the pledges will play a role in deciding which colleges > get this program and when. > > (You will be requested to fulfill your pledge after the > universities approve this program and the govt starts > the program in your college of choice (if any).) > > As a start, I pledge a Pentium (or better) PC for B.J.B. College, > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > my alma matter, if this program is introduced there and I promise > -------------------------------------------------------------- > to spend 2 months every three years in teaching/doing research/ > --------------------------------------------------------------- > offering short courses in a computer center/institute/dept, > ----------------------------------------------------------- > in BBSR provided I am given real-time internet access there. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Finally, please feel free to comment/critic/question/support/flame > (I am serious, flames are welcome.) > any aspect of the proposal. That will help > in the development of a better program and save time > in the long run. > > Thank you very much for reading this long email. > > Dr. Chitta Baral > Associate Professor and Graduate Advisor > Dept of Computer Science > University of Texas at El Paso > El Paso, TX 79902 > chitta@cs.utep.edu > http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/chitta.html > 915-581-3562/747-6952/747-5030(h/o/fax) > > (ps -- If any of the OSA office bearers are reading this > appeal, I would appreciate it if they consider sending this appeal > to all OSA members.) I will be helping you in your effort as we talked. Sunil Sabat From gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us Wed Jul 9 12:30:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.sips.state.nc.us by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17327; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:30:52 MDT Received: from aq.ehnr.state.nc.us by lists.sips.state.nc.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01060; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:20:23 -0400 Received: from NRDEM03/SpoolDir by aq.ehnr.state.nc.us (Mercury 1.21); 9 Jul 97 14:31:22 EST Received: from SpoolDir by NRDEM03 (Mercury 1.30); 9 Jul 97 14:31:02 EST From: "Gautam Patnaik" Organization: EHNR/AQ To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:30:59 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hello from gautam Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-Id: <1CF67710C8A@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us> Status: RO Hi Chita: I am very much on the ornet mailing list. I just got your e-mail, and was going through it. I am happy that it did create such interest amongst the people who are the movers and shakers of the State. I personally do know Mr. Basant Biswal for a very long time, beong a close family friend, he has been after my Father to investigate ways to improve/increase computer awarness in the State. Chita let me dwell on your suggestins for sometime, and I would like to circulate the suggestions that I mailed to you earlier, to a select group of friends and get their comments. Chita I very much share your enthusiasm for the project. No matter how we get there, the final end results contemplated by you of teaching Computer Science at General colleges is a very cherished idea, and the sooner it gets implemented the better it might be. Regards Gautam P.S - let us not forget the Womens colleges, like Sailabala and Rama devi Womens college. Gautam Patnaik, P.E. North Carolina Dept. of Environment, Health, and Natural Resources Division of Air Quality e-mail: gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us tel: (919)-715-6246 fax: (919)-733-5317 address: P.O. Box - 29580 Raleigh, NC - 27626-5317 From spatnaik@ihgp.ih.lucent.com Wed Jul 9 12:31:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cbgw1.lucent.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17331; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:31:51 MDT Received: from ihgp4.ih.lucent.com by cbig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id OAA24951; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:22:39 -0400 Received: by ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id NAA11572; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:31:05 -0500 From: spatnaik@lucent.com Received: from ihgp96b.ih.lucent.com by ihgp4.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id NAA11544; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:31:03 -0500 Received: by ihgp96b.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id NAA03725; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:31:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:31:02 -0500 Original-From: spatnaik@ihgp.ih.lucent.com Message-Id: <199707091831.NAA03725@ihgp96b.ih.lucent.com> To: seeds@cs.columbia.edu, chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO In order to avoid multiple postings to Ornet, I think! it will be best if Ashutosh forwards the copy of Chitta babu's mail in Ornet. It is an excellent proposal. We should support this effort. Thanks & regards, Sujata From mishra@agni.physics.missouri.edu Wed Jul 9 12:44:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: from agni.physics.missouri.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17468; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:44:35 MDT Received: from localhost by agni.physics.missouri.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16358; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:46:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "S. K. Mishra" To: C Baral Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development In-Reply-To: <9707091751.AA16917@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Chitta Babu, It's a VERY GOOD idea to start Comp.Sc.(Hons) in Colleges of Orissa. I would suggest to start one such program in G.M.College, Sambalpur. It has B.Sc and M.Sc. programs in Physics and Math. Since the Gangadhar Meher College (G.M.College), Sambalpur is one of the best college in western Orissa, this program would help the students from those areas to avail the oppertunity. with regards, /Snigdharaj Mishra. On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, C Baral wrote: > > >From owner-kits Wed Jul 9 11:47:52 1997 > Return-Path: > Received: by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) > id AA16846; Wed, 9 Jul 97 11:47:11 MDT > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 11:45:13 MDT > From: chitta (C Baral) > Message-Id: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> > To: calnet@cs.utep.edu, kits@cs.utep.edu, ornet@cs.columbia.edu > Subject: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! > Sender: owner-kits > Precedence: bulk > Status: R > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Proposed B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science program in Orissa Colleges > --- How you can help > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To increase computer trained human resources in Orissa > so as to reach a critical mass to be able to attract > multiple software related companies to Orissa, > I orally presented a proposal to develop B.Sc (Hons) Computer > Science programs in Orissa colleges and got very positive > responses from the ministers, the secretaries, other > organizers of the Invest Orissa symposium, and many OSA members > that I talked to. > > The program involves retraining 3-4 Maths and Physics lecturers > (per college) in Orissa Colleges that have Maths/Physics honours programs, > in Computer science who will be teaching the B.Sc (hons) courses. > Because of the existing infrastructure, such as building and classrooms, > this proposal is a low cost proposal. Also, because of the ultimate > goal of having it all across Orissa it is not focussed on > a particular region, and besides producing a large number > of computer science graduates it will increase the visibility > of computer science in all corner of Orissa -- taking Orissa > on the path of becoming a silicon state. > (The detailed proposal is available at > http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/orissa/bsc/ and will > also be sent in an accompanying mail.) > > The ministers and the secretaries were very enthusiastic about > implementing the proposal and encouraged me to write it down > as quickly as possible. The current chief secretary, Mr. Sudhanshu > Mishra discussed with me for about 30 minutes and gave his word > that he will implement the idea. (He said: > ``Consider this done''.) The > deputy chief minister Hon. Basanta Biswal and the industries > minister Hon. Niranjan Patnaik also liked the idea very much > and Hon. Biswal suggested that we should start the program > at 4-5 colleges first. (This consideration > of his about the practical implementation indicated to me that he was > serious when he said he liked the proposal.) > > > NOW, this proposal also provides an opportunity for all > relatively well-off Oriya well-wishers (particularly in > ornet and OSA) to contribute to a concrete plan of action > towards a visible development of Orissa. > > Because of the cost (even if it is low) the Orissa govt perhaps will go > relatively slow in implementing this proposal, particularly > from expanding it to the initial 4-5 colleges to colleges > all across Orissa. My vision is that colleges such as > Keonjhar College, Bhawanipatna college, N.C College Jajpur etc. > that already have B.Sc (Hons) in Maths/Science programs > offer the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Sc program -- not > just the BJBs and Ravenshaws, and your help > will make this vision come sooner that later. > > Here is what you can do. > > Pick one or more colleges where you would like such a program > to be there as soon as possible. (It could be one of your > alma mater; it could be the college in your home town; > or it could be a college you have a soft spot for some other > reason.) > > Please pledge if you would like to do one or more of the following > for the college of your choice or to a general fund for > the program.) > > (i) Donate a computer -- including its shipping cost. > (perhaps -- the computer could be named after you) > (ii) Sponsor the training of a lecturer in that college. > (iii) Pay for the installation of a/c for the > computer room of that college > (iv) pay $X for computer related books > (v) pay $X towards a general fund to be used in the > development of the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science > program in that college. > (vi) For faculty in Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Information > Systems and Software and Hardware Scientist/programmers/developer: > You may pledge to > be in the advisory board of this program and promise to > spend X months/weeks in each Y years in > teaching/doing research in a computer center/institute/dept in > the city Z in Orissa, > provided you are given real-time internet (web/email) > access there. > (This will add a new meaningful dimension to your vacations in Orissa.) > > Together with my proposal I will be sending > the pledge information to the Orissa govt and I believe > the pledges will play a role in deciding which colleges > get this program and when. > > (You will be requested to fulfill your pledge after the > universities approve this program and the govt starts > the program in your college of choice (if any).) > > As a start, I pledge a Pentium (or better) PC for B.J.B. College, > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > my alma matter, if this program is introduced there and I promise > -------------------------------------------------------------- > to spend 2 months every three years in teaching/doing research/ > --------------------------------------------------------------- > offering short courses in a computer center/institute/dept, > ----------------------------------------------------------- > in BBSR provided I am given real-time internet access there. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Finally, please feel free to comment/critic/question/support/flame > (I am serious, flames are welcome.) > any aspect of the proposal. That will help > in the development of a better program and save time > in the long run. > > Thank you very much for reading this long email. > > Dr. Chitta Baral > Associate Professor and Graduate Advisor > Dept of Computer Science > University of Texas at El Paso > El Paso, TX 79902 > chitta@cs.utep.edu > http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/chitta.html > 915-581-3562/747-6952/747-5030(h/o/fax) > > (ps -- If any of the OSA office bearers are reading this > appeal, I would appreciate it if they consider sending this appeal > to all OSA members.) > > > > From owner-kits Wed Jul 9 12:51:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17503; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:50:45 MDT Message-Id: <199707091857.LAA02104@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> Date: 09 Jul 97 11:14:48 -0700 From: "SBEHURA.US.ORACLE.COM" To: kits@cs.utep.edu Subject: Re: Chitta's Plan X-Orcl-Priority: High Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.2.1.40) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-kits Precedence: bulk Status: RO Friends, Chitta has put forward a brilliant plan. This plan was earlier formulated by him and Purna. We could not deliberate on this plan during the symposium among ourselves because of other engagement. On the fund raising issue I have slightly different idea. Instead of asking any particular individual to commit the whole cost and time for any partiuclar college, we would rather solicit a collection. That way we can involve many more individuals. Let us set up an independent committee, which will decide the pilot project (let us start with a very limited number of colleges, may be four or five). The colleges should be chosen from different part of the state. For increasing governmental participation, let us invite them to invest in some of the urban colleges like Ravenshaw, B.J.B college, Sailabala college. The structure of administration should be such that in every such college (government sponsored or NRO sponsored) we will have our representative working in tandem with government agency. Further, providing one computer each college may not yield intended result. Let us start with atleast 2 computers per college. This is to increase the usability and the availability of the computer resources in case of machinery breakdown. I will add some more ideas later. somdutt From TAP@nebfef.com Wed Jul 9 14:46:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: from nebfef.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18890; Wed, 9 Jul 97 14:46:37 MDT Received: from FEF-Message_Server by nebfef.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 15:45:56 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 15:46:09 -0500 From: Tapan Padhi To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply Encoding: 13 Text Status: RO Hi Chitta, I really appreciate your effort and idea which is in the right direction... It is really a good job. I support the proposal and would let you know my committment soon for F.M. College, Balasore. I have not seriously read the complete mails yet which I will do tonight. Thanks, Tapan Tapan Padhi DBA, FEF Info Systems Lincoln, NE-68505 Ph# 402-479-6905 Fax # 402-479-6658 From owner-kits Wed Jul 9 14:34:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18759; Wed, 9 Jul 97 14:34:22 MDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 16:31:46 EDT From: manoj@aluxs.micro.lucent.com (Manoj K. Sahu) Message-Id: <9707092031.AA04431@konark> To: seeds@cs.columbia.edu Subject: Education plan of Dr Baral Cc: calnet@cs.utep.edu, kits@cs.utep.edu, ornet@cs.columbia.edu Sender: owner-kits Precedence: bulk Status: RO Dear Friends, I congratulate Dr Baral for coming up with such a nice scheme for spreading the computer education in Orissa, which will eventually help turning Orissa into Silicon State of India. I was just thinking in terms of what we have now in the state:- 1)Similar kind of education is now given ONLY in Engineering Colleges, e.g. REC-Rourkela, UCE-Burla, CET-BBSR, IGT-Sarang as B.Sc.(Engg) in Computer Science. This is an Under-grad engineering curriculum. 2)Another course offered in the same line is P.G.D.C.A. (Post-graduate Diploma in Computer Application). This course is available to someone who already has a Bachelors degree in Science (I can't say what is wrong with BA or BCom grads). This one-year course is also offered by OUAT, Utkal Univ. I don't know if it is there in Sambalpur and Berhampur (please correct me if I am wrong). 3)Yet another course is the three year M.C.A. (Master in Computer Applications). Last I knew REC, Rourkela was only offering this. 4)M.Sc. (Engg) or M.Tech in REC and UCE, which are Masters level courses in Engineering, like the regular grad-level course in American universities. When we talk about yet another course, are we talking in terms of anything equivalent to some of these existing things or something different....? Dr Baral may like to reply this question from his initial thoughts. Thanks and regards, ==manoj k. sahu== From chitta Wed Jul 9 14:57:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18958; Wed, 9 Jul 97 14:57:24 MDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 14:57:24 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707092057.AA18958@cs.utep.edu> To: manoj@aluxs.micro.lucent.com Subject: Re: Education plan of Dr Baral Cc: chitta Status: RO > Dear Friends, > > I congratulate Dr Baral for coming up with such a nice scheme > for spreading the computer education in Orissa, which will > eventually help turning Orissa into Silicon State of India. > > I was just thinking in terms of what we have now in the state:- > > 1)Similar kind of education is now given ONLY in Engineering > Colleges, e.g. REC-Rourkela, UCE-Burla, CET-BBSR, IGT-Sarang > as B.Sc.(Engg) in Computer Science. This is an Under-grad > engineering curriculum. > 2)Another course offered in the same line is P.G.D.C.A. > (Post-graduate Diploma in Computer Application). This course > is available to someone who already has a Bachelors degree > in Science (I can't say what is wrong with BA or BCom grads). > This one-year course is also offered by OUAT, Utkal Univ. > I don't know if it is there in Sambalpur and Berhampur (please > correct me if I am wrong). > 3)Yet another course is the three year M.C.A. (Master in Computer > Applications). Last I knew REC, Rourkela was only offering this. > 4)M.Sc. (Engg) or M.Tech in REC and UCE, which are Masters level > courses in Engineering, like the regular grad-level course in > American universities. > > When we talk about yet another course, are we talking in terms of > anything equivalent to some of these existing things or something > different....? > > Dr Baral may like to reply this question from his initial thoughts. > > Thanks and regards, > > ==manoj k. sahu== > In the full proposal I have a section on relation between the proposed program and other existing programs. (I didnot compare with the PGDCA degree though.) I also talk about some equivalences. Basically, all the other programs are programs that Orissa govt adopted based on AICTE (all India council of technical education) programs, which limits the programs to technical institutions. By delinking `technology' from the name and having `science' instead, allows us to have programs in colleges with Science (Hons) degrees, which are much larger in number. We need not always follow others like AICTE, we need to create or come up with innovative things that is best for us. Thats the only way to lead the curve and be ahead of the pack. Chitta From mpatnaik@ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 9 15:11:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19131; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:11:49 MDT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19707; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:11:42 -0500 (CDT) From: mpatnaik@ix.netcom.com Received: from lax-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com(204.30.73.101) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019686; Wed Jul 9 16:11:22 1997 Message-Id: <33C3FF07.4982@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 14:14:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: C Baral Cc: kits@cs.utep.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! References: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Dear Dr Baral, With reference to your proposal I have the following observations: 1. Any new degree program will require considerable time to implement considering the bureaucratic/regulatory hurdles and red tape involved in starting a new curriculum from scratch.It may be easier to work directly with the Universities in Orissa and enrich the current programs e.g MCA,BE(Comp Science)etc.Using the existing resources and building on them, may be much easier and practical than imposing a NRO proposal.We should not forget there are excellent academics and administrators in India with clarity of vision and purpose,otherwise so may computer professions would not bere here today in the first place.SO ignoring the academic community in any such "foreign" proposal is not proper. 2.Also it is clear that the bureacrats in Orissa/India create major hurdles in inplementing new educational progeams.THe universities are autonomous and not under direct government control and hence bureacrats have a problem,which politicians do not.Few months ago when I was in Orissa the UU had a proposal that they start a Diploma in Computer Applications which would be a practical job oriented curriculum and to expedite the implemnation the proposal was to start it in the private sector but the bureaucrats in the Education Department opppose the proposal down stating the government would build and run such a centre.When that will start is now anyone's guess. 3.The MCA and MBA programs and the private engineering colleges affiliated to Orissa Universities have been a success in terms of the employment record of graduates from these institutions.As such the privatisaion of education is quite successful and also allows institutions to be set up rather quicky with capital from entrepreneurs.In less than two years a center in BBSR has abou 50 PCs networked !!In fact many of these private institutions are using retired professors from reputed universities to help them start their programs.NROs may have a role in these centres to ensure that they education imparted is not only for the elite.Depending on the government officials and funding for such a low priority issue like education(!) may not very pragmatic. Using government colleges and retraining lecturers from other disciplines may be a very difficult task in terms of all the red tape and the other complications eg where to train,leave issues,selection procedures,leave coverage,building new facilities,etc.After all these colleges have tremendous pressure of existing programs run with minimal resources. 4.It may be worthwhile getting the input of all 4 Vice-Chancellors in Orissa in the early stages of any such proposal to optimize all the efforts from here. I have some experience in helping set up a Biotechnology Training Centre in UU,BBSR.Here the general plan was to use the resources of the exisiting laboratories in BBSR (ICMR,Life Sciences Institute,RRL,UU) and the first batch of students in a Diploma in Applied Biotechnology starts this year.We arranged a tri-partite international educational agreement between UU,Calif State University,DH and a local Biotech Company (which has a joint ventute with a major Pharma comany in India)Once the first batch is in then we shall have the necessary credibilty to seek more resources from govt or elsewhere.I can discuss with you the whole project which has been ongoing since only 2 years this summer. One of the major problems is the lack of appropriate Internet facilities otherwise we could start many online programs or if a satellite was accessible video based teaching programs could be sent directly from CSU to UU. Best of luck, Dr Manaswi K Patnaik Santa Monica California From chitta Wed Jul 9 15:20:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19193; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:20:09 MDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:20:09 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707092120.AA19193@cs.utep.edu> To: mpatnaik@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! Cc: chitta Status: RO Thanks a lot. This definitely has to go through the universities. What is important to me is that they approve something like this as a B.Sc (Hons) program. I really do not want to impose on them the details. They are guidelines, and people there who are more aware of the ground reality are the best to implement. I guess at the B.Sc level the govt plays the role in terms of giving money. Since they were there at Houston I talked to them. (Unfortunately no one from the universities was there.) After revising the proposal (based on the suggestions) I will make this clarification, when I send it to the VCs of the universities. Chitta From mpatnaik@ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 9 15:11:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19131; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:11:49 MDT Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19707; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:11:42 -0500 (CDT) From: mpatnaik@ix.netcom.com Received: from lax-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com(204.30.73.101) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019686; Wed Jul 9 16:11:22 1997 Message-Id: <33C3FF07.4982@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 14:14:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: C Baral Cc: kits@cs.utep.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! References: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Dear Dr Baral, With reference to your proposal I have the following observations: 1. Any new degree program will require considerable time to implement considering the bureaucratic/regulatory hurdles and red tape involved in starting a new curriculum from scratch.It may be easier to work directly with the Universities in Orissa and enrich the current programs e.g MCA,BE(Comp Science)etc.Using the existing resources and building on them, may be much easier and practical than imposing a NRO proposal.We should not forget there are excellent academics and administrators in India with clarity of vision and purpose,otherwise so may computer professions would not bere here today in the first place.SO ignoring the academic community in any such "foreign" proposal is not proper. 2.Also it is clear that the bureacrats in Orissa/India create major hurdles in inplementing new educational progeams.THe universities are autonomous and not under direct government control and hence bureacrats have a problem,which politicians do not.Few months ago when I was in Orissa the UU had a proposal that they start a Diploma in Computer Applications which would be a practical job oriented curriculum and to expedite the implemnation the proposal was to start it in the private sector but the bureaucrats in the Education Department opppose the proposal down stating the government would build and run such a centre.When that will start is now anyone's guess. 3.The MCA and MBA programs and the private engineering colleges affiliated to Orissa Universities have been a success in terms of the employment record of graduates from these institutions.As such the privatisaion of education is quite successful and also allows institutions to be set up rather quicky with capital from entrepreneurs.In less than two years a center in BBSR has abou 50 PCs networked !!In fact many of these private institutions are using retired professors from reputed universities to help them start their programs.NROs may have a role in these centres to ensure that they education imparted is not only for the elite.Depending on the government officials and funding for such a low priority issue like education(!) may not very pragmatic. Using government colleges and retraining lecturers from other disciplines may be a very difficult task in terms of all the red tape and the other complications eg where to train,leave issues,selection procedures,leave coverage,building new facilities,etc.After all these colleges have tremendous pressure of existing programs run with minimal resources. 4.It may be worthwhile getting the input of all 4 Vice-Chancellors in Orissa in the early stages of any such proposal to optimize all the efforts from here. I have some experience in helping set up a Biotechnology Training Centre in UU,BBSR.Here the general plan was to use the resources of the exisiting laboratories in BBSR (ICMR,Life Sciences Institute,RRL,UU) and the first batch of students in a Diploma in Applied Biotechnology starts this year.We arranged a tri-partite international educational agreement between UU,Calif State University,DH and a local Biotech Company (which has a joint ventute with a major Pharma comany in India)Once the first batch is in then we shall have the necessary credibilty to seek more resources from govt or elsewhere.I can discuss with you the whole project which has been ongoing since only 2 years this summer. One of the major problems is the lack of appropriate Internet facilities otherwise we could start many online programs or if a satellite was accessible video based teaching programs could be sent directly from CSU to UU. Best of luck, Dr Manaswi K Patnaik Santa Monica California From gpatnaik@algw2.lucent.com Wed Jul 9 15:40:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: from algw2.lucent.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19337; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:40:17 MDT Received: from marconi.ih.lucent.com by alig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id RAA01518; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:43:47 -0400 Received: by marconi.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.3 sol2) id QAA21938; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:40:11 -0500 Received: from tarini.ih.lucent.com by marconi.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.3 sol2) id QAA21921; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:40:10 -0500 Received: from tarini by tarini.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id QAA04946; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:40:09 -0500 Sender: grp@marconi.ih.lucent.com Message-Id: <33C40539.7C9D@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:40:09 -0500 From: gyana_ranjan_patnaik Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: Important proposal for Orissa's development - Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Chitta, Excellent proposal. Hopefully Govt. of Orissa will implement it with sincerety. My concern is finding teachers. Gyana Patnaik Chicago From lndas@cs.tamu.edu Wed Jul 9 15:45:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.tamu.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19392; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:45:23 MDT Received: from sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (2233@sparc15 [128.194.133.115]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19109 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:44:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from lndas@localhost) by sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA13493; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:43:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:43:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Laxminarayan - Das To: " Dr. Chitta Baral" Subject: proposal (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Chitta Babu, I just made some suggestions, please go through these and if you find some thing wrong than let me know. with regards -laxminarayan From: Laxminarayan - Das To: lndas@cs.tamu.edu Subject: proposal Objectives If we go through the present statistics of computer science education, training and learning status of Orissa, we observe *There are seven Degree engineering colleges providing B.E.(computer Science) course. *Four universities, two engineering colleges, and one private (AICTE approved) institute, are providing MCA course. * More than four engineering (Poly Technique) schools are providing computer diploma course. *More than six IGNOU study centers are engagged in providing MCA course. *Nearly forty private computer institutes are running PGDCA, DCA and certificate courses. *Except these, OCAC and OUAT are running O, A, B, and C level courses in computer science. In this way more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E., 800 PGDCA, 1000 DCA, and 5000 certificate course computer science professionals are produced yearly basis from these institutions. (This list does not include the hundreds of oriya computer professionals those are coming out from the rest part of India.) Concerning to the employment statistics we find less than 8% with MCA or BE qualification are getting employment in abroad or multinational companies. Among the remaining persons 25% are engaging in national leading companies other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA, DCA, and Diploma degree holders. The cause of this tragedy are * Lack of efficient teaching and proper training. * Lack of computation facilities. * Lack of advanced software. * Unavailability of reference books, text books, journals and periodicals. * Lack of Research environment. According to the present requirement an Institute should be established and it can serve the following purposes: * Research and development * Up dating the computer professionals(Knowledge sharing) * A model computer engineering, technology and science college. * Center for Advance studies in computer science and software design. Research and Development The institute should conduct two types of research. The first type is object oriented and the second type is fundamental. The object oriented research should include consultancy jobs (both to the government and privates). The fundamental type of research is the research relating to computer hardware. Knowledge sharing This institute should have the best library and the best laboratory in the state and it can able to full fil the requirements of both computer professionals and the computer institutions within Orissa. This institute should have network connection with all universities and engineering colleges of Orissa so that inter library landing process can be smooth. Further annually one crore of rupees can be saved from the library expenses of leading colleges and universities of Orissa. A Model Engineering College 1) Four year B.E., B.Tech., and B.C.Sc. Degree plan The institute should provide four year Bachelor in Computer Engineering, Bachelor in Computer Technology, and Bachelor in Computer Science courses. The students should be taken from (90%) state JEE and (10%) National JEE. The number of student for this course should not exceed 300. The last four semesters of these degree should be taught specialized topics. For example, Computer engineering students should be taught any of the areas from computer architecture, computer networking, control system and automation, parallel computing etc. The computer technology student should be taught subjects like image processing, robotics, VLSI, remote sensing, multimedia, satellite communication and control, etc. The Bachelor in computer science students should be taught special subjects like Artificial Intelligence, data base, gene computation, computer human interactions etc. 2) Two year ME-MTech-MCSc. Degree plan The eligible B.E., B.Tech, and B.C.Sc. students should be admitted to these courses. Thre should be thesis/project option to the students. The project option students will work either with the first type of research (consultancy) group or with the group working in Center of advance studies. The thesis option student will work with the group engagged in fundamental research. (some more to be added, now I am busy in other work) From prabhu@isandt.com Wed Jul 9 16:26:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: from pantano.theriver.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19747; Wed, 9 Jul 97 16:25:58 MDT Received: from alc125.alice-compusystems.com (p57029.syspac.com [204.181.57.29]) by pantano.theriver.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22094 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:25:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:25:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199707092225.PAA22094@pantano.theriver.com> X-Sender: prabhu@alice-compusystems.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chitta@cs.utep.edu From: Prabhu Subject: Good Start Status: RO Dear Chitta: I am really impressed with the proposal you have given. As we discussed at Houston, this proposal has and will have complete support from myself and IS&T, Inc. About my pledge: I will gladly provide real-time Internet access from Orissa, for this program and also other programs once IS&T starts providing Internet access in India. IS&T will provide any PC and other hardware needed for this program, with out any profit. For example IS&T will provide Pentium PCs to Christ and FM College. IS&T builds custom computers for business. I would be glad to provide computers for this program without any profit. I will be able to provide at least 6PCs for the above colleges. For example a Pentium-120 would cost ~$900 without monitor. It will include P-120, 512K motherboard, 32MB RAM, 33.6K Modem, Network card, 2.1GB HD, 2MB video, 16X CD ROM, Keyboard, Mouse, Floppy drive. We can buy Monitors very cheap USES and WORKING. I will keep you posted about the development of the Internet business in India. I will send you my suggestions about the course design soon. Keep in touch. Hear from you soon. Prabhu(Bapi) ************************************************************************* \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o | /\ __\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ ......./.\...|.\../).|....(.\../o\../.)....|..(\../.|.../.\.../.\........ INTERNATIONAL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, INC. ALICE COMPUSYSTEMS INC. 6505 WEST FRYE ROAD, SUITE # 24 CHANDLER, ARIZONA 85226 TEL: 602-961-9151 FAX: 602-961-9296 prabhu@isandt.com http://www.isandt.com http://www.alice-compusystems.com ......................................................................... \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o | /\ __\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ ......./.\...|.\../).|....(.\../o\../.)....|..(\../.|.../.\.../.\........ From prafulla@parrot.informix.com Wed Jul 9 19:02:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: from kingcrab.informix.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22430; Wed, 9 Jul 97 19:02:00 MDT Received: from parrot (parrot.informix.com [158.58.8.22]) by kingcrab.informix.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15162 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snash ([158.58.16.191]) by parrot (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25712; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:01:55 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970710010349.00995990@parrot> X-Sender: prafulla@parrot X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 18:03:49 -0700 To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) From: prafulla@parrot.informix.com Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! Status: RO I think it is a great idea. I pledge to provide a IBM compatible x486 or higher model PC for Godavarish Mahavidyalaya, Banpur.(Dist Khurda, former dist: Puri). I also promise to teach short courses/seminars there(3-4 weeks in duration) every two years. thanks, --Prafulla At 11:45 AM 7/9/97 MDT, you wrote: > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Proposed B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science program in Orissa Colleges >--- How you can help >------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To increase computer trained human resources in Orissa >so as to reach a critical mass to be able to attract >multiple software related companies to Orissa, >I orally presented a proposal to develop B.Sc (Hons) Computer >Science programs in Orissa colleges and got very positive >responses from the ministers, the secretaries, other >organizers of the Invest Orissa symposium, and many OSA members >that I talked to. > >The program involves retraining 3-4 Maths and Physics lecturers >(per college) in Orissa Colleges that have Maths/Physics honours programs, >in Computer science who will be teaching the B.Sc (hons) courses. >Because of the existing infrastructure, such as building and classrooms, >this proposal is a low cost proposal. Also, because of the ultimate >goal of having it all across Orissa it is not focussed on >a particular region, and besides producing a large number >of computer science graduates it will increase the visibility >of computer science in all corner of Orissa -- taking Orissa >on the path of becoming a silicon state. >(The detailed proposal is available at >http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/orissa/bsc/ and will >also be sent in an accompanying mail.) > >The ministers and the secretaries were very enthusiastic about >implementing the proposal and encouraged me to write it down >as quickly as possible. The current chief secretary, Mr. Sudhanshu >Mishra discussed with me for about 30 minutes and gave his word >that he will implement the idea. (He said: >``Consider this done''.) The >deputy chief minister Hon. Basanta Biswal and the industries >minister Hon. Niranjan Patnaik also liked the idea very much >and Hon. Biswal suggested that we should start the program >at 4-5 colleges first. (This consideration >of his about the practical implementation indicated to me that he was >serious when he said he liked the proposal.) > > >NOW, this proposal also provides an opportunity for all >relatively well-off Oriya well-wishers (particularly in >ornet and OSA) to contribute to a concrete plan of action >towards a visible development of Orissa. > >Because of the cost (even if it is low) the Orissa govt perhaps will go >relatively slow in implementing this proposal, particularly >from expanding it to the initial 4-5 colleges to colleges >all across Orissa. My vision is that colleges such as >Keonjhar College, Bhawanipatna college, N.C College Jajpur etc. >that already have B.Sc (Hons) in Maths/Science programs >offer the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Sc program -- not >just the BJBs and Ravenshaws, and your help >will make this vision come sooner that later. > >Here is what you can do. > >Pick one or more colleges where you would like such a program >to be there as soon as possible. (It could be one of your >alma mater; it could be the college in your home town; >or it could be a college you have a soft spot for some other >reason.) > >Please pledge if you would like to do one or more of the following >for the college of your choice or to a general fund for >the program.) > >(i) Donate a computer -- including its shipping cost. >(perhaps -- the computer could be named after you) >(ii) Sponsor the training of a lecturer in that college. >(iii) Pay for the installation of a/c for the >computer room of that college >(iv) pay $X for computer related books >(v) pay $X towards a general fund to be used in the >development of the B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science >program in that college. >(vi) For faculty in Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Information >Systems and Software and Hardware Scientist/programmers/developer: >You may pledge to >be in the advisory board of this program and promise to >spend X months/weeks in each Y years in >teaching/doing research in a computer center/institute/dept in >the city Z in Orissa, >provided you are given real-time internet (web/email) >access there. >(This will add a new meaningful dimension to your vacations in Orissa.) > >Together with my proposal I will be sending >the pledge information to the Orissa govt and I believe >the pledges will play a role in deciding which colleges >get this program and when. > >(You will be requested to fulfill your pledge after the >universities approve this program and the govt starts >the program in your college of choice (if any).) > >As a start, I pledge a Pentium (or better) PC for B.J.B. College, >---------------------------------------------------------------- >my alma matter, if this program is introduced there and I promise >-------------------------------------------------------------- >to spend 2 months every three years in teaching/doing research/ >--------------------------------------------------------------- >offering short courses in a computer center/institute/dept, >----------------------------------------------------------- >in BBSR provided I am given real-time internet access there. >------------------------------------------------------------ > >Finally, please feel free to comment/critic/question/support/flame >(I am serious, flames are welcome.) >any aspect of the proposal. That will help >in the development of a better program and save time >in the long run. > >Thank you very much for reading this long email. > >Dr. Chitta Baral >Associate Professor and Graduate Advisor >Dept of Computer Science >University of Texas at El Paso >El Paso, TX 79902 >chitta@cs.utep.edu >http://cs.utep.edu/chitta/chitta.html >915-581-3562/747-6952/747-5030(h/o/fax) > >(ps -- If any of the OSA office bearers are reading this >appeal, I would appreciate it if they consider sending this appeal >to all OSA members.) > > > > //////////////// Regards, ////////// // --Prafulla ////// / /// ///// // //// Prafulla Mishra //// // ///// Sr. Product Manager /// // ////// INFORMIX Software, Inc. // // /////// Enterprise Products Business Unit / /////////// (415) 926-5903, prafulla@informix.com From sahu@cs.umass.edu Wed Jul 9 19:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: from thor.cs.umass.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22982; Wed, 9 Jul 97 19:13:03 MDT Received: (from sahu@localhost) by thor.cs.umass.edu (8.8.4/8.7.3) id VAA16581; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Sambit Sahu Message-Id: <199707100113.VAA16581@thor.cs.umass.edu> Subject: Re: Important proposal To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: sahu@thor.cs.umass.edu (Sambit Sahu) In-Reply-To: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> from "C Baral" at Jul 9, 97 11:45:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Hello Chitta, Thanks for your email in Ornet and for the idea. I'm pretty excited about the idea and I have read your proposal details today. I've couple of questions/suggestions. In general, I like the structure of the plan. I've some reservation about the idea that Math/Physics lecturers would be taught *part-time* to learn about Computer Science. A good course in Algorithms and one in Architecture take up about a full semester in a typical U.S. university. So how do you expect the lecturers can devote enough time to learn "appropriately" while even doing a teaching job? I agree many lecturers in Physics/Math. are quite talented - but we are talking about people who have never been exposed to a simple programming course. When you give example of Civil/Mechanical engineering undergrads learning Grad. CmpSci courses, they definitely have some prior exposure and also they have plenty of time at hand and the pressure to learn the basic courses is a driving factor in grad. life here. You may need to look for more realistic solutions in this regard. Maybe I'm pessimistic about the part-time training, but I feel if a *quality* program to be taught, we need more than this. I may be wrong, but even in many Engineering colleges in Orissa where CmpSci is taught as Undergrad/MCA course, there is a lacking quality in teaching due to lack of resources and qualified teachers. Please do not misread my above pessimism. I feel the B.Sc. in CmpSc to be really successful, it has to be really a competitive program. I'm sure your initiative would be a success with a careful engineering of the implementation and dedication from more people. I'm willing to extend my help if needed in designing a basic course structure in Computer Networking related areas. My focus of research is related to this field of area. I wish you all the success on this noble venture... Thanks, Sambit -- Network Research Group Dept. of Computer Science Univ. of Massachusetts sahu@cs.umass.edu From chitta Wed Jul 9 19:31:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from sundown.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24057; Wed, 9 Jul 97 19:31:41 MDT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 19:31:40 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707100131.AA24057@cs.utep.edu> To: sahu@cs.umass.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal Cc: chitta Status: RO Dear Sambit: A graduate student with TA normally takes 3 graduate courses a semester with his/her TAship. I am suggesting the lecturers take 2 undergraduate courses a semester with 1/2 their regular teaching load. (Reducing it will just make the training process too long.) I really don't know what their normal teaching load is. But I hope my intutive calculation is right. Any alternative training model is welcome and criticisms/suggestions are welocome and will be taken in the right spirit. So don't worry about that part. Chitta From ppanda@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Thu Jul 10 08:41:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: from welchlink.welch.jhu.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29957; Thu, 10 Jul 97 08:41:31 MDT Received: (from ppanda@localhost) by welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12355; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:36:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Pankaja Panda To: C Baral Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! In-Reply-To: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO so are you planning to go back and do this? i can count on my one hand how many indians i know who have gone back in the 15 yrs. i have been here. doing it from here is as good as not doing it at all. Pankaja Panda From chitta Thu Jul 10 10:02:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00647; Thu, 10 Jul 97 10:02:10 MDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 10:02:10 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707101602.AA00647@cs.utep.edu> To: ppanda@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! Cc: chitta Status: RO Dear Pankaja: I have already talked to some of the ministers and some of the bureacrats and they like the idea. I will be talking to the University people. Once the program is approved by the university, the next step would be for some colleges to have it. Here the govt will play the role in giving appropriate funding to the colleges that open it. The implmentation will be faster if I go there, but it is doable from here, albeit a little slowly. When you get time, please read the whole proposal. I have tried carefully to propose the ideas such that someone like me does not have to be there to do it. I am not talking of opening a comoany, or opening a an organization, or going theer for a long period to do this and that. I am just trying to convince the govt and the universities to have such a program. The govt (the ministers and the bureacrats that came to Houston) are almost convinced. Only the universities need to be convinced. The pledge about donating computers etc is separate. I will just collect these pledge and hand it over to the chief secretary. Normally, he and the depty CM want to start this program in 3-4 colleges around BBSR; mainly because of the cost. But, if they get pledge from 20 people for 20 computers for GM college (Sambalpur) or Fakir Mohan College (Balasore), they may think why not in Sambalpur or Balasore. I am being careful here, in starting something which seem to be doable without a big change in my life style and a big promise that I can not keep. Even now, I spend 1-2 months in BBSR every two years. I would be very happy actually to make this vacation more meaningful and be able to teach or do research in BBSR while I am there. SO, this promise can be kept very easily. In fact it will make my vacation more attractive. Hope this helps. Pnakaja, this is doable without me going there for an extended period, which you said and I agree is very unlikely. cheers Chitta ~c chitta . From manoj@aluxs.micro.lucent.com Thu Jul 10 10:11:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from algw1.lucent.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00678; Thu, 10 Jul 97 10:11:12 MDT Received: from aluxs by alig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id MAA11712; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:27:14 -0400 Received: from konark (konark.micro.lucent.com) by aluxs (4.1/DCS-aluxs-M11.2) id AA26778; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:09:12 EDT Received: by konark (4.1/DCS-aluxs_client-S3.1) id AA05062; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:09:12 EDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:09:12 EDT From: manoj@aluxs.micro.lucent.com (Manoj K. Sahu) Message-Id: <9707101609.AA05062@konark> To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: Re: Proposal for Orissa's Development Cc: gautam_patnaik@aq.ehnr.state.nc.us Status: RO Someone has thought deeply about all this...... ==manoj== ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From sid Thu Jul 10 11:09:37 1997 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 11:09:35 EDT From: sid (S. Mohanty) Orig-From: sid (S. Mohanty) To: manoj Subject: Re: Proposal for Orissa's Development Content-Length: 3131 ARE WE BITING MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW???? ======================================= The proposal for introducing BSc Computer Science is a noble and innovative idea no doubt, but have we thought about the issues in front of us? Here are some facts: FACT 1: ====== Most of the existing Engg colleges themselves aren't well equipped for their BSc (Engg.) in C.S. I think the only college which has a decent program is REC, and that too only in the past few years. I had tried to influence my younger sister to take up CS in Burla. She vehemently refused to take either CS or Electronics because these are in pretty bad shape, no Profs, no equipment, etc.. I hate to think about the state of the other colleges. In such a situation is it advisable to look at other regular colleges? Not only do these colleges lack in basic infrastructure, they are also way behind the Engg. colleges. Let us first work on improving the programs in the Engg colleges. If the Govt can do that for a start, that will be a great benefit to the student community in the state. Those guys are worthless. They just know how to talk. If they could promise a project of this magnitude why don't they first try and improve the state of the Engg colleges in the state? There are just a few. FACT 2: ====== Most of the programs in the Engg. colleges are very poor compared to the rest of the country. As a result, graduating students often find problems finding jobs. There are less jobs and more students. The quality of the programs in the Engg. colleges are poor. How can we sustain the quality of the programs in the other regular colleges? FACT 3: ====== What Orissa needs is heavy investement in the Education sector. We are ignoring the basic needs and talking about industry, MOUs, etc.. If we can promise to help out in the Education sector our state would benefit. Otherwise everyone else will benefit and all the wealth generated by this "BIG" companies will all be channeled out. These companies are not in this for charity. They are in this to make money. If they cannot find good Oriya people they will just employ other people. What does this do to the Oriyas? Nothing!! FACT 4: ======= The Engineering colleges would benefit a lot if we can go and spend time in these colleges and teach the students, and work with the faculty in improving the standards of education. Let's do this first before we do BSc C.S. FACT 5: ======= The Engg colleges do not have internet facilities. I know how many problems were involved when REC was trying to get internet. There was so much politics involved that it was amazing. I was stunned just hearing about this. It's crazy! Let's first get these facilities to the Engg colleges. I can go on and on. I think I have made my point. Please let me know if you think otherwise. Also if you think appropriate convey this to Chitta Bhai. I believe that we will gain much more if he can spend his 3 months in REC or Burla. I do not have access to posting on ornet so I am sending it to you directly. Anyway, ornet is for big people with big ideas, not for commoners like me! ;-) Regards, Sidhartha. ----- End Included Message ----- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 12:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01939; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:27:39 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id LAA19341 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from premier1.premier.net (premier1.premier.net [204.178.176.23]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19332 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MOHANTY.DRXPRESS.COM (ip239-106.drxpress.com [204.252.239.106]) by premier1.premier.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA04273; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:11:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970710151117.0067a4e8@mail.premier.net> X-Sender: smohanty@mail.premier.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:11:17 -0500 To: manoj@ALUXS.MICRO.LUCENT.COM (Manoj K. Sahu) From: sasmita mohanty Subject: Computer course(correction) Cc: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear friends, I appreciate Mr.Barnal's idea.It is good to have B.sc computer science at college level.At present there are M.C.A courses in all three universities.Utkal started it in 1990,Berhampur in 1993(Iam not sure).Even OUAT offers M.C.A course.The main advantage of having B.Sc computer science at college level makes one more professional.They know about computer much better than non computer students joining M.C.A courses.I personally feel it is good idea to open this major(Hons) at college level.In fact Universities in Orissa should offer new courses like Environmental science,Biophysics,astrophysics... Sasmita Mohanty 600-E-roosevelt street.apt#254 Baton rouge. LA-70802,USA. From sdnayak@hotmail.com Thu Jul 10 12:35:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from f23.hotmail.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02143; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:32:46 MDT Received: (from root@localhost) by f23.hotmail.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17562; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707101753.KAA17562@f23.hotmail.com> Received: from 206.184.132.208 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:53:10 PDT X-Originating-Ip: [206.184.132.208] From: "Shesa Deb Nayak" To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: B.Sc. course in Orissa Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:53:10 PDT Status: RO Hello sir, I gor a mail from my friend Snigdharaj Mishra from Columbia University which was forwarded to me about the initiation of B.Sc. in comp. science in Orissa. Let me introduce myself first : I am "Shesa Deb Nayak" and is at present working as a "Senior Software QA Executive" in a company in San Jose, CA,USA. Earlier I was working as a Project Leader in HCL Consulting in India. I was also studying in G.M. College in Orissa before doing my M.Com, MBA, CQA, PGDCS, PGDPMIR etc. I highly appreciate your idea and hope that this is a fantastic idea. I think you may be knowing Dr.Akhileswar Patel, who is working as a professor in New Jersey, he is my Piusa and I will spread this to him and my friend here in Silicon Valley. Please update me the proceding, if you can, from time to time. My email address : sdnayak@hotmail.com , ph : 415-964-1488 Thanks and Regards, Shesa D. Nayak _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com From ppanda@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Thu Jul 10 12:37:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: from welchlink.welch.jhu.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01951; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:29:11 MDT Received: (from ppanda@localhost) by welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08452; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Pankaja Panda To: C Baral Subject: cmsc in orissa In-Reply-To: <9707101602.AA00647@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO okay i heard this a million times before. at least you want to do something for the state. there are 2 people who may be of use, ie my 2 brothers both who studied/study here and have gone/going back. my elder brother though an economist has a background in physics(MSC from wisconsin), the youngest is in cmsc now and hopefully finishes in may 98. my elder brother lives in bhub. youngest will be in delhi but goes to bhub. 2/yr. my middle brother and bhaujo have still not decided, if they go back then there will be 3 pandas there. i dont need to go since i am not in cmsc. good luck in your endeavors. Pankaja Panda From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 12:44:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02411; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:38:07 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id LAA19284 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from premier1.premier.net (premier1.premier.net [204.178.176.23]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19279 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MOHANTY.DRXPRESS.COM (ip239-106.drxpress.com [204.252.239.106]) by premier1.premier.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA04153; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:09:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970710150932.00676cc4@mail.premier.net> X-Sender: smohanty@mail.premier.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:09:32 -0500 To: manoj@ALUXS.MICRO.LUCENT.COM (Manoj K. Sahu) From: sasmita mohanty Subject: Computer course(correction) Cc: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear friends, I appreciate Mr.Barnal's idea.It is good to have B.sc computer science at college level.At present there are M.C.A courses in all three universities.Utkal started it in 1990,Berhampur in 1993(Iam not sure).Even OUAT offers M.C.A course.The main advantage of having B.Sc computer science at college level makes one more professional.They know about computer much better than non computer students joining M.C.A courses.I personally feel it is good idea to open this major(Hons) at college level.In fact Universities should offer new courses like Environmental science,Biophysics,astrophysics... Sasmita Mohanty 600-E-roosevelt street.apt#254 Baton rouge. LA-70802,USA. From ppatnaik@fjicl.com Thu Jul 10 12:55:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oak-1.pilot.net by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02870; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:50:00 MDT Received: from usa0415.fjicl.com ([167.158.4.15]) by mail-oak-1.pilot.net with SMTP id JAA28525 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: 10 Jul 97 09:36:40 -0800 From: "PATNAIK Purna" Subject: Convention guide lines In-Reply-To: <9707091745.AA16762@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: <0021D55A1D000001010440504B042E@usa0415.fjicl.com> To: C Baral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Chitta Babu: I am encouraged to see the positive response to your computer education proposal that you got from the ministers and the chief secretary. I will post your proposal in the outreach section of our upcoming OSA Web site. Since you are in a computer science department, will it be possible to donate some server space for the web. With a volunteer's help we are already designing and testing our web page at a private site and registering for our own domain name. Also, will you please forward me your thoughts on convention guide lines that you had mentioned. I am asking for inputs at this time. Please use my husband's email, since my hours are irregular in summer. Thank you. Gopa Patnaik OSA President ppatnaik@fjicl.com From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 13:09:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03374; Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:08:58 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id MAA22220 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gateway.sequent.com (gateway.sequent.com [138.95.18.1]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22209 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eng4.sequent.com (eng4.sequent.com [138.95.7.64]) by gateway.sequent.com (8.6.13/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA02381; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:32:19 -0700 Received: (from lar@localhost) by eng4.sequent.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA25381; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ananda Rao Ladi Message-Id: <199707101632.JAA25381@eng4.sequent.com> Subject: Re: Computer course(correction) To: smohanty@PREMIER.NET (sasmita mohanty) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: manoj@ALUXS.MICRO.LUCENT.COM, ornet@cs.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970710150932.00676cc4@mail.premier.net> from "sasmita mohanty" at Jul 10, 97 10:09:32 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Hello Just FYI: In addition to the universities, the autonomous colleges like Khalikote College are also planning to start MCA course. During my previous trip to Berhampur, I met with the Principal, and there was a discussion about the course material. The curse was supposed to start from the current academic year. Anand [sasmita mohanty writes...] >Dear friends, > I appreciate Mr.Barnal's idea.It is good to have B.sc computer science >at college level.At present there are M.C.A courses in all three >universities.Utkal started it in 1990,Berhampur in 1993(Iam not sure).Even >OUAT offers M.C.A course.The main advantage of having B.Sc computer science >at college level makes one more professional.They know about computer much >better than non computer students joining M.C.A courses.I personally feel it >is good idea to open this major(Hons) at college level.In fact Universities >should offer new courses like Environmental science,Biophysics,astrophysics... From chitta Thu Jul 10 13:24:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: from sundown.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03828; Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:24:55 MDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:24:55 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707101924.AA03828@cs.utep.edu> To: manoj@aluxs.micro.lucent.com Subject: Re: Proposal for Orissa's Development Cc: chitta Status: RO Manoj bhai and Sidhartha: You state valid facts. But one (having B.SC hons programs) should not depend on the other (improving current B.E programs) or vice versa. As an analogy, we should not wait to reform/improve the elementary education in current elementary schools before making new schools where there are none and depriving people of opportunties there. To me providing more opportunities and actually reforming the B.Sc/B.Com/BA courses to make them more job oriented is more broad based and important than the other. But I sure would support effort towards improving existing B.E. programs too. Finally, if REC and UCE were in BBSR, where my parents and friends live, I would dfefinitely teache/do research there during my vacation. Thanks for your comments though. cheers Chitta From chitta Thu Jul 10 13:52:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04798; Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:52:21 MDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:52:21 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707101952.AA04798@cs.utep.edu> To: lar@sequent.com Subject: Re: Computer course(correction) Cc: chitta Status: RO Thanks for the pointer. >From no computer science degrees to B.E computer Science; the next expansion was MCA, which being a Masters degree is still limited to certain universities/autonmous colleges. The next step in the expansion is the proposed B.Sc (hons) Computer science. (We need not wait for UGC or the All India Council of Tech Education to create/approve it. We can be first and let others follow us.) Once the programme is approved by the universities, and it is available in some collges, many other colleges -- partcularly, the private ones -- will automatically pick it up. cheers Chitta From TAP@nebfef.com Thu Jul 10 14:42:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: from nebfef.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06177; Thu, 10 Jul 97 14:42:31 MDT Received: from FEF-Message_Server by nebfef.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:42:03 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:42:18 -0500 From: Tapan Padhi To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Cc: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply -Reply Encoding: 26 Text Status: RO I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . Thanks, Tapan Tapan Padhi, DBA, FEF Information Systems, Lincoln, NE-68505 Ph # 402-479-6905 Fax # 402-79-6658 >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> Thanks. I really want it to be avaialable in at least one college in each district, not just in 3-4 places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not just BBSR.) It would be great if you could also talk to other Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. Thanks again. Chitta From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 14:51:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06492; Thu, 10 Jul 97 14:50:59 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id OAA26134 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halon.sybase.com (halon.sybase.com [192.138.151.33]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA26123 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com [130.214.220.35]) by halon.sybase.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA23551 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croaker.sybase.com by smtp1.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.5-030896) id AA07902; Thu, 10 Jul 97 11:34:23 PDT Received: by croaker.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybEC3.5) id AA03879; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:32:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:32:11 -0700 From: arupat@SYBASE.COM (Arun Patnaik) Message-Id: <9707101832.AA03879@croaker.sybase.com> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Education plan of Dr Baral Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: 7J3OJ/+x+VwCJ/jhqmX1jQ== Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO I agree with manoj bhai that it may be more productive/beneficial to start with the existing computer courses and work on them to make it widely available. Some of the major reasons why there are so few successful computer students in orissa: - It's very expensive. - Insufficient local Job market. - Unawareness of such courses after intermediate(+2) level. - Bad quality of the available courses - lack of good trainers Any one who is a little good and can afford comes abroad Mostly students who don't get a software job become trainers Little practical knowledge/experience - Inadequate equipements/practical training I would be very much interested to be involved in a concrete plan to make orissa a silicon state. I think more discussion is required in this direction and I would request chitta bhai to take the lead and I am sure we the oriyas in america can achieve this goal if we sincerely try. Thanks - Arun _______________________________________________ ARUN PATNAIK 38681 WATERSIDE CIRCLE # 105, Fremont CA 94536 Home: (510) 742-9671 FAX: (510) 922-5335 Work: (510) 922-4512 E-mail:arupat@sybase.com _______________________________________________ From ppatnaik@fjicl.com Thu Jul 10 18:42:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oak-1.pilot.net by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13150; Thu, 10 Jul 97 18:42:36 MDT Received: from usa0415.fjicl.com ([167.158.4.15]) by mail-oak-1.pilot.net with SMTP id RAA01911 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: 10 Jul 97 17:40:32 -0800 From: "PATNAIK Purna" Subject: RE:Re: Convention guide lines In-Reply-To: <9707101904.AA03313@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: <002135631D000001010440504B042E@usa0415.fjicl.com> To: C Baral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Chitta: Thank you for your server space offer. I have asked our web volunteer Dave Dash to get in touch with you. How about the convention guide lines that you had spoken about? Thanks. Gopa From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 18:48:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13345; Thu, 10 Jul 97 18:48:20 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id TAA04944 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssintp90.softthought.com (ssintp90.softthought.com [207.13.19.10]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA04939 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from purnap200 ([207.13.19.26]) by ssintp90.softthought.com (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA250 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:11:30 -0500 Message-Id: <33C56D7D.257675D7@softthought.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:17:17 -0500 From: purnam@softthought.com (Purna Mishra) Organization: Softthought Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: RE: B.Sc.(Hons) course in Computer Application X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO I do not want to throw cold waters on the effort to submit a proposal to open B.Sc. (Hons.) course work in Computer Application. In this context, I have heard from people who want to make Orissa the Silicon state, flooded the state with software people, etc. This is a very honorable effort. I do not know how many of you have taken time to visit the institutes that offer M.C.A. course work in Orissa, met the faculties, and check the infrastructure. For example, Utkal University has a M.C.A. program for last couple of years with very little infrastructure to carry out instruction and with questionably qualified faculties. They just hired a reader from Burla to head the faculty. What Orissa will achieve by producing questionably qualified graduates? In the last Indian Science Congress meeting the speakers complained about the quality of the Indian researchers and Ph.Ds. I still remember the nightmare I went thru when the Utkal University introduced set theory in I.Sc. curriculum. The faculty at Ravenshaw college were totally unprepared to teach. Now they teach set theory to the 8th. grade students. I have a couple of questions I will like to get answers: 1. How will you ensure that properly qualified faculty will be available to carry out the teaching? 2. What will be the minimum lab facility? 3. How can you restrict the course to only one college in a district? Orissa has now 28 districts. How can you deny a private college from establishing this course work? I do not think what Orissa needs is quantity. What Orissa needs is quality. A group of qualified professional. For example, compare the contribution of Israel vs. India. Orissa is a relatively peaceful state with fairly low cost of living. What Orissa needs is a few IT industries that will attract qualified IT professionals from all over India. It is fairly costly to run business at Banglore and the lack of adequate power and water makes it tougher. Lately a few of the software companies are migrating from Banglore to Madras and Hyderabad. Even with a late start, Calcutta has attracted several IT companies. I hope someday some of the Oriya NRIs will start successful IT ventures in Orissa. From chitta Thu Jul 10 19:24:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14125; Thu, 10 Jul 97 19:24:39 MDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 19:24:39 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707110124.AA14125@cs.utep.edu> To: purnam@softthought.com Subject: RE: B.Sc.(Hons) course in Computer Application Cc: chitta Status: RO Thank you for voicing your concerns. It is better we think about them now rather than they being used to shot down the proposal in Orissa. In my opinion quantity and quality are both important. As an analogy, we can not stop providing far flung areas of Orissa with no elementary schools/roads with schools/roads before the elementary schools/roads in the rest of the state are good. We need to do both. You can think of my suggestions from a different angle. I am sugegstiong how to make our B.Sc degrees more job oriented by providing Computer Sc pass, and Computer Sc (hons). If necessary (for cost reasons) number of seats in B.Sc (hons) Physics and Maths may be reduced. Also, my goal is not to limit such degrees to one in each district. What I said (or meant to say) is that at least one in each district. In fact once the universities approve this degree many of the private and/or autonomous colleges might take the lead before many of the govt colleges get the resources to start the degree, and that is VERY welcome. And I am sure it will happen. Hope this answers your concerns. Please feel free to voice additional concerns either through direct email or through ornet. Thanks Chitta (ps -- more comments below.) > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 18:48:28 1997 > To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu > Subject: RE: B.Sc.(Hons) course in Computer Application > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu > Precedence: bulk > X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu > Status: R > > I do not want to throw cold waters on the effort to submit a proposal to All criticisms are welcome. We need to think all pros and cons beforehand. > open B.Sc. (Hons.) course > work in Computer Application. In this context, I have heard from people > who want to make Orissa the > Silicon state, flooded the state with software people, etc. This is a > very honorable effort. > > I do not know how many of you have taken time to visit the institutes > that offer M.C.A. course work in Orissa, met the faculties, and check > the infrastructure. For example, Utkal University has a M.C.A. program > for last > couple of years with very little infrastructure to carry out instruction > and with questionably qualified faculties. They just hired a reader > from Burla to head the faculty. I agree and something should be done about quality too. The OSEDC proposal to open a good institute (to be called IIIT -- Indian inst of Info Tech) is a step in the right direction. They are looking for NRO support to their proposal. Their proposal was distributed in the Invest Orissa Symposium in Houston. Anyone who attended it, should have a copy. > > What Orissa will achieve by producing questionably qualified graduates? > In the last Indian Science Congress meeting the speakers complained > about the quality of the Indian researchers and Ph.Ds. > > I still remember the nightmare I went thru when the Utkal University > introduced set theory in I.Sc. curriculum. The faculty at Ravenshaw > college were totally unprepared to teach. Now they teach set theory to > the 8th. grade students. I am sure you did very well. Because of realtive lack of opportunities/facilities in Orissa, Oriyas have done very well whenever they got additional opportunity. My belief is (I don't have conclusive proof, besides anecdotes) that if the training program of lecturers are not done properly, the teaching will be questionable. But even then if the exams are done properly and a good syllabus (where hopefully we will have some input) is followed the graduates will shine with a slight lag. i.e. Once they work in a company, in a year or two they will be very good. Despite inadequate facility, the MCA graduates of Orissa have done pretty well. We are not at the stage (Unlike US), where we can prefer quality over quantity. We need both. > > I have a couple of questions I will like to get answers: > > 1. How will you ensure that properly qualified faculty will be available > to carry out the teaching? I wrote about it in the full proposal. But we may need to discuss it more. > 2. What will be the minimum lab facility? Good question. My initial guess would be 1 computer (PC) for 5 Hons students or for 10 pass students. > 3. How can you restrict the course to only one college in a district? > Orissa has now 28 districts. How can you deny a private college from > establishing this course work? I did not intend to imply either of them. > > I do not think what Orissa needs is quantity. What Orissa needs is > quality. A group of qualified professional. For example, compare the > contribution of Israel vs. India. Quantity and quality are both important. Quantity gives a critical mass. > > Orissa is a relatively peaceful state with fairly low cost of living. > What Orissa needs is a few IT industries that will attract qualified IT > professionals from all over India. It is fairly costly to run business > at Banglore and the lack of adequate power and water makes it tougher. > Lately a few of the software companies are migrating from Banglore to > Madras and Hyderabad. Even with a late start, Calcutta has attracted > several IT companies. When we talked to some software companies in Austin, one of their most important concern was availability of local human resource. > > I hope someday some of the Oriya NRIs will start successful IT ventures > in Orissa. > > I sincerely hope too. Thanks again Chitta From sundaram@eng.fiu.edu Fri Jul 11 09:22:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: from pobox.eng.fiu.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27607; Fri, 11 Jul 97 09:22:52 MDT Received: from NetWare MHS (SMF70) by pobox.eng.fiu.edu via Connect2-SMTP 4.00; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:22:17 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:21:43 -0400 From: "Sundaram, K." Sender: "Sundaram, K." Organization: EIC To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Cc: seeds@cs.columbia.edu, ppatra@intel.ichips.com Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.00 MHS to SMTP Gateway Status: RO >From : K KALYANA SUNDARAM Dear folks , Kudos to this proposal. I have been a bystander watching all your actiivities . Instead of calling it a silicon valley of India, alone,it could become a mica valley for the world .. We must note that India and the borders of Orissa have the largest deposits of Mica in the world. Thus as soon as one of us Indians ( I wish somebody native of Orissa does plunge in this activity) develops the chips on the mica substrate(research on going now ), that shall be a reality. We shall have computers cheaper than those sold in the USA. At that time the trained manpower would be needed in large numbers to work in that direction. I am now in materials and mechanics research, and hope that some day, as soon as my academic pressures of the Ph.D degree are over, I too shall join and be able to supplement your tasks. I also feel that in addition to education on computer software the culture to simultaneously raise funds in academicia must be inculcated back home. It would be a good idea if a satellite city is started in the instititutions there in Orissa so that people who learn software can work and market their products and export them to the USA and other parts of the world beginning from the school days itself. Congratulating you again . K K Sundaram Office : HCET EAS - 2273 Engg and Applied sciences Building Florida International University , University Park, Miami FL-33199 PHONE (305)-348-1816 , 1824, 1596 (O) EMAIL : SUNDARAM @ENG.FIU.EDU From chitta Fri Jul 11 09:24:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27726; Fri, 11 Jul 97 09:24:57 MDT Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 09:24:57 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707111524.AA27726@cs.utep.edu> To: lndas@cs.tamu.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply -Reply Cc: chitta Status: RO Thankyou Laxminarayan babu for your perspective. Your email points out many of the practical issues that needs to be tackled. I will give my perspective to some of the questions you pointed out. Chitta > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 23:22:37 1997 > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:04 -0500 (CDT) > From: Laxminarayan - Das > Status: RO > > Tapan babu, > > The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not > fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in > the last part of this mail. > > I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in > Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer > education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated > before providing this this type of education. > > Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 > DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out > from the different institutes of Orissa. I am sure the number coming out of just from the city of Bangalore, or Hyderabad is much much more. According to NASSCOM (National Software someting -- Its chairman is Dewang Mehta) ``Companies have projected a demand for appx 41,000 software professionsal each year between 1996 to 1998. With some 55,000 (total) new IT professionals entering the workforce during this period, the job market will remain tight.'' > > These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. > Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four > engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government > ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides > these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side > Orissa. > > Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders > are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. > Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading > national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs > with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and > DCA degree holders. Most of teh PGDCA and DCA come out of the private institutions like NIIT etc. Because of no regulations, their teaching, examination, everything is questionable. From my point of view they are just making money and giving very little in return. At least the B.Sc (Hons) exams will be legitimate. > > Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the > quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other I would not count the PGDCA and DCA from the private institutions. > states of India. The real problem is in quality. Just cpompare with cities like Hyderabad and Pune (not even Bangalore). But you are very right about quality and this must be seriously looked at. > > The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes > are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is > in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer > institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and > updated computer software are dream to our students. I agree. But, as I said in my previous mail yesterday, I would not wait for the quality to improve before providing opportunity to a larger segment of population. Moreover, as I have learnt in the US, competition creates quality. When the Bsc (Hons) programs are in place, ORissa Engg College will have no choice but to improve its quality. > > While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science > faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a > student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in > each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government > enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. > The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals > during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in > comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is > not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine > the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the > approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after > the availability of window 97 in market. State institutions will have their problems, and we need to find ways to solve them. But, again, we can not just stop and not provide opportunities to others. (As an analogy, should the Orissa govt just focuss on Utkal, Berhampur and Sambalpur univ and make their programs great before opeining PG programs at Fakirmohan. No, I think they did the right thing by opening PG programs in many colleges like Fakirmohan College. As you mention later, FM has some good faculty in their PG Maths.) I completely agree about improving quality, but not by freezing the current availability. > > In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of > mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges > of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic > Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, > Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur > University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some > PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges > offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining > colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept > their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College > Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of > Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer > theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) > using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some > hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as > I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend > for the service. > > Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic > mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and > the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas > on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc > were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But > the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing > sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges > had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those > lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. As you earlier mentioned to me the training was done for 6 months, with no exams and questionable instructors. We should learn from this and make the training process better, not stop training altogether. Based on your comments, I have suggested very strong training guidelines. Your additional comments on them are welcome. > > This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those > who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science > students are increasing day by day and number of seats in > engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read > literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. > > This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas > and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to > improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our > state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some > software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or > Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. > > Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not > made it has no impact in mass. > You are right about the network. I have stressed about it in the proposal. But, there is also another point. The vast cost of networking is justifiable when it benefits large number of people i.e. if it can be connected to large number of colleges/institutions. More simply, suppose network is available at point A and not at B. If only 5 instituiytions at B need to be networking the cost per institution is much more than if say 30 institutions in point B are to be networked. This is because the cost of connecting A to B will almost remain same and the cost of connecting from B to an institution is comparatively much less. > In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch > this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most > of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in > computer training either from private institutions or from study centers > of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If > these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again > crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. The steps will be to get the B.Sc program approved by the Universities. Then the govt probably will start at a few colleges at first. But many private colleges can pick it up on their own. I sincerely hope the govt has an ultimate goal of having such programs in all govt colleges where there is already B.Sc Hons in Physics and Maths within say 5 years. > > > In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, > journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to > building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. > This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading > colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books > and advance software No disagreement here. > > Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened > in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. > and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will > need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. > from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching > FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. > > Without developing infrastructure like network connection, > library, computing facility, this project will not full fill > its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified > persons. No disagreement here, except that the B.Sc hons exam being a legitaimite exam will produce many qualified persons too. Thanks again for your comments. cheers Chitta > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > > > I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other > > ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in > > establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . > > Thanks, > > Tapan > > > > Tapan Padhi, > > DBA, FEF Information Systems, > > Lincoln, NE-68505 > > Ph # 402-479-6905 > > Fax # 402-79-6658 > > > > >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> > > Thanks. > > > > I really want it to be avaialable in at least > > one college in each district, not just in 3-4 > > places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not > > just BBSR.) > > > > It would be great if you could also talk to other > > Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. > > > > Thanks again. > > Chitta > > > > > with thanks > -laxminarayan > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > > Visiting Scientist > Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University > E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 > Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. > College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. > Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Fri Jul 11 10:14:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29218; Fri, 11 Jul 97 10:14:04 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id KAA23276 for ornet-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle-external.scana.com (eagle-external.scana.com [161.156.101.6]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23271 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by eagle-external.scana.com; id AA052669634; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:00:34 -0400 Received: from cola9m.scana.com(161.156.251.238) by eagle-external.scana.com via smap (3.2) id xma005255; Fri, 11 Jul 97 10:00:32 -0400 Received: by cola9m.scana.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8DE1.5A303CC0@cola9m.scana.com>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:01:07 -0400 Message-Id: From: "DAS, PALASH" To: "'Tapan Padhi'" , "'Laxminarayan - Das'" Cc: "'ornet'" Subject: RE: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply -Reply Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:01:03 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO When I did BE Comp Sc from REC Rourkela in 1992 , 30 from REC (15 from Orissa and 15 outside state) and I think 90 from OEC Bhubaneswar were coming out of Orissa. I do not know my counterparts from OEC but all my batchmates from REC are here in USA, non of them are serving Orissa or India in anyway, including me. I think this attitude should change. The type of education we got is one of the best that is there in India , but I think we still have a long way to go. The college is getting the Top 15 students from Orissa but I do not know if they are still Top 15 by the time they come out. What happens to them? By the time they come out of the college they almost forget the effort they had put in to just to be among those 15 people out of 10000. I think this is because when a 17 years old kid goes into an Engineering college with all kinds of dream, they think themselves to be on the top of the world and they have no one to show them the real world as non of the teachers in that college have really seen the real world. They do everything other than improving what they are. But they realise their mistake when they come out of the college. With proper guidance they can be the best in the world. Now multinational companies are flooding the campus to recruit REC guys but the college itself is not able to make money out of them , when they are most willing to work, the state is not able to make money out of them. We need some guidance in that front. The type of students that REC gets, if it uses them properly it will be a big industry by itself. One day may be we can compare ourselves with engineers from MIT. I am sure the students going into MIT is no way better than the students going into REC but it is the process involving college and the student and their interaction with the outside world makes it different. In Orissa we need people who can dream, we need a visionary who can see the future and guide us into 21st Century. Orissa needs us and wants us to dream and help her in making her dream come true. I sincerely think Orissa needs quality and we should be particular about that. In my humble opinion let us make use of what we have now and excel in that. Once we do that , we will just sit back and witness the industry boom in our motherland. Palash Das pdas@scana.com Palash_das@notes.pw.com >---------- >From: Laxminarayan - Das[SMTP:lndas@cs.tamu.edu] >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 11:29 PM >To: Tapan Padhi >Cc: 'ornet' >Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, >crtic and help! -Reply -Reply > >Tapan babu, > >The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not >fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in >the last part of this mail. > >I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in >Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer >education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated >before providing this this type of education. > >Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 >DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out >from the different institutes of Orissa. > >These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. >Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four >engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government >ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides >these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side >Orissa. > >Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders >are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. >Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading >national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs >with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and >DCA degree holders. > >Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the >quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other >states of India. The real problem is in quality. > >The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes >are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is >in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer >institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and >updated computer software are dream to our students. > >While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science >faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a >student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in >each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government >enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. >The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals >during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in >comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is >not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine >the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the >approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after >the availability of window 97 in market. > >In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of >mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges >of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic >Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, >Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur >University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some >PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges >offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining >colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept >their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College >Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of >Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer >theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) >using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some >hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as >I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend >for the service. > >Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic >mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and >the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas >on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc >were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But >the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing >sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges >had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those >lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. > >This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those >who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science >students are increasing day by day and number of seats in >engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read >literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. > >This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas >and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to >improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our >state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some >software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or >Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. > >Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not >made it has no impact in mass. > >In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch >this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most >of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in >computer training either from private institutions or from study centers >of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If >these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again >crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. > > >In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, >journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to >building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. >This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading >colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books >and advance software > >Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened >in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. >and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will >need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. >from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching >FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. > >Without developing infrastructure like network connection, >library, computing facility, this project will not full fill >its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified >persons. > > >On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > >> I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other >> ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in >> establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . >> Thanks, >> Tapan >> >> Tapan Padhi, >> DBA, FEF Information Systems, >> Lincoln, NE-68505 >> Ph # 402-479-6905 >> Fax # 402-79-6658 >> >> >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> >> Thanks. >> >> I really want it to be avaialable in at least >> one college in each district, not just in 3-4 >> places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not >> just BBSR.) >> >> It would be great if you could also talk to other >> Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. >> >> Thanks again. >> Chitta >> >> >with thanks >-laxminarayan >(Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > >Visiting Scientist >Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University >E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 >Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. >College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. >Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- > > > > From hector@usb.ve Fri Jul 11 11:49:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: from skynet.usb.ve by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02761; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:49:04 MDT Received: from ldc.usb.ve (shaddam [159.90.10.10]) by skynet.usb.ve (8.8.5/SKYNET.USB.VE-2.0/03Feb97-KGV) with ESMTP id NAA31035 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:51:32 -0400 (GMT-0400) Received: from usb.ve (tango [159.90.10.43]) by ldc.usb.ve (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA07505 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:49:11 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: <199707111749.NAA07505@ldc.usb.ve> To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Subject: Re: AAAI Workshop Robtics Reply-To: hector@usb.ve Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:46:42 +0400 From: Hector Geffner Status: RO Hi Chitta, How are you doing? Is there a program already for the workshop? thanks a lot. Best -hector From PDAS@scana.com Fri Jul 11 11:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: from eagle-external.scana.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02842; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:55:48 MDT Received: by eagle-external.scana.com; id AA048273747; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:55:47 -0400 Received: from cola9m.scana.com(161.156.251.238) by eagle-external.scana.com via smap (3.2) id xma004815; Fri, 11 Jul 97 13:55:45 -0400 Received: by cola9m.scana.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8E02.3B2599D0@cola9m.scana.com>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:56:29 -0400 Message-Id: From: "DAS, PALASH" To: "'chitta@cs.utep.edu'" Subject: RE: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply -Reply Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:56:26 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Hi Are you elder brother of Manoranjan Baral. He is a very very close friend of mine and I know you since I was 10 years old. We studied together in DM School and you were my role model all my schooling days. Palash >---------- >From: chitta@cs.utep.edu[SMTP:chitta@cs.utep.edu] >Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 1:09 PM >To: DAS, PALASH >Subject: RE: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, >crtic and help! -Reply -Reply > > >Since REC graduates are doing so well, think of the people >who could not get into REC or the Engg colleges. >Many of them are very very good and given the opprtunity they >should excell too. > >Thats exactly my point. Lets increase opportunities to people; >and if we can do that without incurring heavy cost and using >much of the existing infrastructure, then we should do it. > >But you are right about the quality. It should be >watched. I happen to believe that competition from the >B.Sc programs will force REC and other existing programs to >improve themselves. Thats what competition does. >(There are other factors too.) >But, as a REC graduate you could help REC in many ways. >The IIT KGP foundation raises lots of money and >a school of mangement was started in KGP because of a >1 million dollar donation to IIT KGP by an alumni. > >REC should reach out to its alumni; or you could on behalf >of its alumni. In the US, a huge part of most >universities budget comes from alumni donations; >particularly when new programs are developed. > >Dear Ornetters, many of you have always thought about helping >your almamater or the college near your hometown and >many times have thought, what will my $100 or $1000 do. >Here is a concrete proposal. Together with contributions >from other like minded people, it will help your college of >choice to have a B.Sc program in computer science, >or improve the exisiting BE/MCA program >and for years to come, becuase of your thoughtful act, >students will be studying in that program. > >Finally, the salary for computer professionals in >Bangalore and some parts of India are skyrocketing. >( I read in this weeks India Today >about 28-32 yr old millionaire software >professionals in Bangalore. >If Bhubaneswar had those opportunities then I will bet >many of your REC classmates would have stayed in BBSR.) >BBSR will get those companies when there is a critical mass >of good quality of software professionals available >in BBSR. So both quality and quantity are important. > >Chitta > > > >> From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Fri Jul 11 10:14:25 1997 >> Return-Path: >> Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) >> id AA29218; Fri, 11 Jul 97 10:14:04 MDT >> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id >>KAA23276 for ornet-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:00:39 -0400 (EDT) >> Received: from eagle-external.scana.com (eagle-external.scana.com >>[161.156.101.6]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA23271 for >>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:00:35 -0400 (EDT) >> Received: by eagle-external.scana.com; id AA052669634; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 >>10:00:34 -0400 >> Received: from cola9m.scana.com(161.156.251.238) by >>eagle-external.scana.com via smap (3.2) >> id xma005255; Fri, 11 Jul 97 10:00:32 -0400 >> Received: by cola9m.scana.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet >>Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) >> id <01BC8DE1.5A303CC0@cola9m.scana.com>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:01:07 -0400 >> Message-Id: >> >> From: "DAS, PALASH" >> To: "'Tapan Padhi'" , >> "'Laxminarayan - Das'" >> >> Cc: "'ornet'" >> Subject: RE: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, >>crtic and help! -Reply -Reply >> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:01:03 -0400 >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version >>4.0.994.63 >> Mime-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu >> Precedence: bulk >> X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu >> Status: RO >> >> When I did BE Comp Sc from REC Rourkela in 1992 , 30 from REC (15 from >> Orissa and 15 outside state) and I think 90 from OEC Bhubaneswar were >> coming out of Orissa. I do not know my counterparts from OEC but all my >> batchmates from REC are here in USA, non of them are serving Orissa or >> India in anyway, including me. I think this attitude should change. The >> type of education we got is one of the best that is there in India , but >> I think we still have a long way to go. The college is getting the Top >> 15 students from Orissa but I do not know if they are still Top 15 by >> the time they come out. What happens to them? By the time they come out >> of the college they almost forget the effort they had put in to just to >> be among those 15 people out of 10000. I think this is because when a 17 >> years old kid goes into an Engineering college with all kinds of dream, >> they think themselves to be on the top of the world and they have no one >> to show them the real world as non of the teachers in that college have >> really seen the real world. They do everything other than improving what >> they are. But they realise their mistake when they come out of the >> college. With proper guidance they can be the best in the world. Now >> multinational companies are flooding the campus to recruit REC guys but >> the college itself is not able to make money out of them , when they are >> most willing to work, the state is not able to make money out of them. >> We need some guidance in that front. The type of students that REC gets, >> if it uses them properly it will be a big industry by itself. One day >> may be we can compare ourselves with engineers from MIT. I am sure the >> students going into MIT is no way better than the students going into >> REC but it is the process involving college and the student and their >> interaction with the outside world makes it different. In Orissa we >> need people who can dream, we need a visionary who can see the future >> and guide us into 21st Century. Orissa needs us and wants us to dream >> and help her in making her dream come true. >> >> >> I sincerely think Orissa needs quality and we should be particular about >> that. >> In my humble opinion let us make use of what we have now and excel in >> that. Once we do that , we will just sit back and witness the industry >> boom in our motherland. >> >> Palash Das >> pdas@scana.com >> Palash_das@notes.pw.com >> >> >---------- >> >From: Laxminarayan - Das[SMTP:lndas@cs.tamu.edu] >> >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 11:29 PM >> >To: Tapan Padhi >> >Cc: 'ornet' >> >Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, >> >crtic and help! -Reply -Reply >> > >> >Tapan babu, >> > >> >The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not >> >fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in >> >the last part of this mail. >> > >> >I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in >> >Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer >> >education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated >> >before providing this this type of education. >> > >> >Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 >> >DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out >> >from the different institutes of Orissa. >> > >> >These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. >> >Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four >> >engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government >> >ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides >> >these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side >> >Orissa. >> > >> >Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders >> >are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. >> >Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading >> >national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs >> >with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and >> >DCA degree holders. >> > >> >Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the >> >quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other >> >states of India. The real problem is in quality. >> > >> >The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes >> >are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is >> >in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer >> >institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and >> >updated computer software are dream to our students. >> > >> >While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science >> >faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a >> >student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in >> >each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government >> >enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. >> >The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals >> >during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in >> >comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is >> >not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine >> >the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the >> >approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after >> >the availability of window 97 in market. >> > >> >In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of >> >mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges >> >of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic >> >Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, >> >Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur >> >University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some >> >PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges >> >offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining >> >colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept >> >their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College >> >Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of >> >Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer >> >theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) >> >> >using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some >> >hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as >> >I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend >> >for the service. >> > >> >Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic >> >mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and >> >the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas >> >on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc >> >were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But >> >the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing >> >sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges >> >had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those >> >lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. >> > >> >This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those >> >who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science >> >students are increasing day by day and number of seats in >> >engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read >> >literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. >> > >> >This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas >> >and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to >> >improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our >> >state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some >> >software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or >> >Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. >> > >> >Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not >> >made it has no impact in mass. >> > >> >In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch >> >this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most >> >of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in >> >computer training either from private institutions or from study centers >> >of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If >> >these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again >> >crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. >> > >> > >> >In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, >> >journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to >> >building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge >>sharing. >> >This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all >>leading >> >colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books >> >and advance software >> > >> >Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be >>opened >> >in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. >> >and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will >> >need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his >>Ph.D. >> >from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching >> >FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. >> > >> >Without developing infrastructure like network connection, >> >library, computing facility, this project will not full fill >> >its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified >> >persons. >> > >> > >> >On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: >> > >> >> I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other >> >> ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in >> >> establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tapan >> >> >> >> Tapan Padhi, >> >> DBA, FEF Information Systems, >> >> Lincoln, NE-68505 >> >> Ph # 402-479-6905 >> >> Fax # 402-79-6658 >> >> >> >> >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> I really want it to be avaialable in at least >> >> one college in each district, not just in 3-4 >> >> places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not >> >> just BBSR.) >> >> >> >> It would be great if you could also talk to other >> >> Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. >> >> >> >> Thanks again. >> >> Chitta >> >> >> >> >> >with thanks >> >-laxminarayan >> >(Dr. Laxminarayan Das) >> > >> >Visiting Scientist >> >Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University >> >E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu >> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-- >> >--- >> >301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 >> >Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. >> >College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. >> >Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 >> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-- >> >--- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 23:22:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25360; Thu, 10 Jul 97 23:22:31 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id XAA11088 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.tamu.edu (0@clavin.cs.tamu.edu [128.194.130.106]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11080 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (2233@sparc15 [128.194.133.115]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29273; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from lndas@localhost) by sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15045; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Laxminarayan - Das To: Tapan Padhi Cc: "'ornet'" Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic and help! -Reply -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Tapan babu, The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in the last part of this mail. I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated before providing this this type of education. Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out from the different institutes of Orissa. These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side Orissa. Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and DCA degree holders. Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other states of India. The real problem is in quality. The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and updated computer software are dream to our students. While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after the availability of window 97 in market. In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend for the service. Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science students are increasing day by day and number of seats in engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not made it has no impact in mass. In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in computer training either from private institutions or from study centers of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books and advance software Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. Without developing infrastructure like network connection, library, computing facility, this project will not full fill its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified persons. On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other > ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in > establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . > Thanks, > Tapan > > Tapan Padhi, > DBA, FEF Information Systems, > Lincoln, NE-68505 > Ph # 402-479-6905 > Fax # 402-79-6658 > > >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> > Thanks. > > I really want it to be avaialable in at least > one college in each district, not just in 3-4 > places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not > just BBSR.) > > It would be great if you could also talk to other > Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. > > Thanks again. > Chitta > > with thanks -laxminarayan (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) Visiting Scientist Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Fri Jul 11 12:11:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03312; Fri, 11 Jul 97 12:11:20 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id LAA26515 for ornet-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw002.smb.com (fw002.smb.com [204.148.15.155]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA26510 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sbmail.smb.com ([168.109.12.15]) by fw002.smb.com (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id LAA16206 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CCMGATE.CORP.SMB.COM (ccmgate.corp.smb.com [146.128.148.33]) by sbmail.smb.com (8.8.5/CMTF-Mailrelay-1.18) with SMTP id LAA23830 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by CCMGATE.CORP.SMB.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA868647273; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:51:39 EST Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:51:39 EST From: "Surya Sahoo" Message-Id: <9706118686.AA868647273@CCMGATE.CORP.SMB.COM> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: New Computer courses Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Hi netters, I want to point out my feelings about the courses suggested by Mr Barnal and seconded by few others. I am really concerened about Manoj bhai's doubts. As far as I know there are some institutions offering various computer courses like PGDCA, DCA, MCA etc. But I beleive they do not have good teaching staff, good course structure and good lab facilities ( I mean most of them barring a few ). Since there is a lot of demand for these courses, some institutions are running only for monetary gains rather than producing good students(from a industry view point). Now a days, lot of software majors are coming to Orissa for Campus recruitment but the guys who miss out on those companies, struggle hard to get a job outside. So if we incorporate additional courses in colleges that will NOT help us to build up our software potential. I would stress upon the idea of introducing the 'Software Engg.' as a branch in the existing five engineering colleges because they all have the necessary infrastructure. It will be easy and enconomical to incorporate these changes into the existing curriculum and help develop another 100 or 150 bright young software literates to build up their carrer. Along with that we should try to generate a consciousness among the biggies to be aware of our unexploited potential and resources. Getting convinced with such a tremendous scope, I hope they will definitely set up shops in our state. To stress on the point, just ponder over this :) What a youngster would do after completing the BSc(Comp sc)?? Would he again try for other technical/medical colleges? After completing BSc, I am sure it would be pretty difficult to land up with a job. Hence, unless we plan properly to attract big companies to Orissa, it would of not much help to add to the existing frustrated list of software/computer engineers. I mean not any more to the list of 'bekArs on Mahanadi bank with ganjei'. PLEASE NO FLAMES on the net !!! Surya Prakash Sahoo Piscataway, NJ From chitta Fri Jul 11 20:00:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23402; Fri, 11 Jul 97 20:00:20 MDT Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 20:00:20 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707120200.AA23402@cs.utep.edu> To: tom_k_mishra@amoco.com Cc: chitta Status: RO Your observation that if we have vested interest then we will be more inclined to think about the project is right in general. But, there are some problems there. From my interaction with the Orissa govt politicians and officials in Houston, my feeling was that for some time they have been quite suspicious of NRO projects taht involves profit. That is due to some of the bad things done by a few NRO (Non resident Oriyas) in the past. These NROs took advantage of Orissa govt policies and in the name of setting up industries grabbed some prime land. (I was told about that by some people in Orissa who explained me why they hate NROs and why NROs are looting Orissa. I have no proof.) Because of this act of a few the govt is normally suspicious of for profit ventures by NROs. Besides, some of them may think if the investor is making profit then they (the politicians or the officials) should get a part of it. But, the Houston symposium was a completely differnt matter. The polticians and officials saw and it was clear that the hard working organizers (particularly, Manas Patnaik, Somdutt Behura and Gopal Mohapatra) had absolutely no vested interest and they were quite impressed by it and said that in so many words. (At the same time they were very hesitant to help out Kalinga Hospital, an NRO venture which is both good for Orissa and has a potential to make profit for the NRO investors. I felt they were suspicious about it.) Similarly, they saw that I really had no vested interest (in terms of personal profit) in the proposal about B.Sc (Hons) that I was presenting, and they were very supportive. So, although it is true that we will be more interested in a project if we have a vested interest, my feeling is such a project (unless there is a real big money) will be looked at suspiciously, beacuse of some past ventures/misddeds of some NROs. Now, if you analyse my proposal, my basic goal is for the universities to have such a program in their books and the govt to start it in few places. The details are just guidelines. I believe the inherent merit in the idea will do the rest in terms of private colleges creating such programs on their own and other govt colleges pressuring the govt through their MLAs/MPs to get funding to open such a program. Besides that all I am asking people is use this as an opportunity to express their gratitude to their favourite college or almamater. Moreover, by being able to do something useful during our vacations in India/Orissa by giving short courses will be rewarding and make the vacation more meaningful (and may even make the travel tax deductile -- I am not a tax accountant but I was told this is a possibility). So I have not really proposed anything that is not doable easily. But at the same time it has the potential to have a big impact, beacuse it is a whole concept, not an isolated act of kindness or charity. Hope I made myself more clear. cheers Chitta From lndas@cs.tamu.edu Fri Jul 11 21:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.tamu.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25517; Fri, 11 Jul 97 21:11:13 MDT Received: from sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (2233@sparc15 [128.194.133.115]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28645; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from lndas@localhost) by sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15977; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:09:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:09:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Laxminarayan - Das To: C Baral Cc: "'ornet'" Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic , , , and help! -Reply -Reply In-Reply-To: <9707111524.AA27726@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Chitta Babu, I am not satisfied with the suggestion that the state government will open some B.Sc.(Hon`s Comp.Sc.) in some of it`s colleges and the private colleges will start and run this subject by there own effort. This will make political interference within the study atmosphere. Here I am giving two instants. One is the creation of 31 vocational training centers in Orissa to train students for self employment. In later days it's number extended to 181 and how that is a burden to the state government. Another instant is the political interference of proposed Vyasa Vihar university. In 1988 state government decided to open +2 Vocational colleges to train Oriya students in the areas of horticulture, fishery, plant protection, radio and TV repairing, electronic appliances maintenance, etc.. For this central government gave 60% of the proposed expenditure. Initially state government opened 31 colleges nearly two colleges in each district(at that time number of district was 13). For smooth runing of this program state government established a new directorate named Director of Vocational Education. All district education circle office has its branch offices. The location of these schools were decided by the politicians on the basis of discretion of Ministers/MLAS violating the rules of central government. Central government norm was to select the locations closure to industry, agriculture farms, breeding centers, etc in order to save infrastructure costs. But the motive of politicians were to earn money from contractors. There was a few budget in construction of building. But state government spend 25% money in building construction, (it would be better if these buildings were constructed properly and ultimately it could become the assets to our state.) 10% money in purchasing laboratory equipments and 30% in salary of faculty and supporting staffs. But the problem started from the contract employees, students, the host institution, and from the politicians. In original proposal the norm of appointment of faculties was on contract basis. The principals who were OES(Orissa educational service) have got authorization to appoint the faculties (called PGT's)on contract basis from the government engineers, veterinary doctors, horticulturists, agriculture officers, or lecturers from local colleges. But politicians interfered in the appointment and forced principals to appoint some local unemployed political youths. Some were not even qualified in their respective fields. There were incidents of change of the basic subjects to employ their own people. For example to provide employment to a commerce graduate in certain +2 Govt. vocational school the local political reprenstative changed one vocational subject(initially each vocational school was allowed to open four vocational subjects from the list of vocational subjects specified by director of vocational education.) and convinced the Director of vocational education to recognize accountancy as a vocational subject instead of that particular subject. The principals of some colleges made false teaching bills and gave percentage to the local politicians. The training/education started from March, 1988 and first batch of student came out in February 1991. Some agriculture farms and private fishing company employed 35% of students. In the subsequent years some more students came out and number of unemployed student increased day by day they asked state government and banks for loans to open their enterprises, but state government did not respond. On the other hand MLA's forced government to open new such colleges in their constituencies. Government opened 150 new such colleges in the premises of some government high schools and private colleges located in different regions of the state. The politicians appointed their own candidate violating employment rule for recruitment of permanent faculty/staffs.(As per the norm of appointment the supporting staff would be selected through the Orissa Staff Selection Council and faculty would be recruited by OPSC.) The head masters of some host school demanded for the post of principal through there union. But government was unable to pay 181 principals. The pay scale of a principal was same as that of any class 1 IAS. When government did not accept their proposal, some head master did not allow to run the colleges in their campus. The laboratory, instruments and other things were lost. The student made some camp in front of PMG square. On the other hand remuneration of faculty was just RS. 25 per class. The employee of these school were not getting their remuneration regularly as budget was meant for 31 schools, government was managing 181 institutions. The frustrated staffs and students go on strike and met education ministers and asked to clarify the intention of this type of education, future of staffs and students employment etc. But government is yet to settle that long run problem. The problems those were propagated during that project are listed below. Interfarence of political parties. Deviation of location, course, and degree plan. Violation of own rule. The laboratory equipments of some colleges were available in pen and papers. Corruption and nexus between politicians and executive person. According to your proposed project who will guaranty that the following things will not happen: * Political interference in selection of lecturers for training, appointment of lecturers and student selection. * Student unrest in different colleges where this course will not offered. (In my seven years teaching experience in different colleges of Orissa I have seen student never watch the consequence of their own activities and can be the instruments of politicians. Who use them to earn cheap popularity. The best example is proposed VYASA VIHAR university. The intellectual of Balasore proposed this university and run a token one in Balasore town. The advisory board processed to the paper work from UGC and the central government. When they required the state government clearance, the education minister who was from Mayurbhanja, did not clear that rather he insisted the students of Mayurbhanj to protest that proposal by holding rally. The students did that. As a result the ministry set a committee to decide the location of the proposed university. The committee recommended Baripada is the proper place for proposed university. When the people of Balasore asked their representative to change the spot and bring it in favour of the people of Balasore. He persuade the committee to review the report but could not succeed rather unveiled the truth that a person belongs to Mayurbhanja was in that committee and he has strongly recommended infavour of Baripada. The student of Balasore went on rally and picketed in front of the collectorate and stopped train, closed shops of Balasore etc.. In both places there were the politicians who created difference between the intellectuals of these two districts. It is interesting now people of Bhadrak are claiming that university to be established in their district. It is true that claim of all these three districts are genuine in the sense of workload, quality education, population strength, backwardness in professional institutions and availability of intellectuals. The real requirement is one university in each district. But government is not ready to open and politicians are preserving unrest in the name of development of state. Neither co-ordinating committee member nor the interested intellectual thought their effort will deliver this type of unpleasant situation.) * Like the change of location of vocational training centers the location of proposed B.sc.(Comp. Sc. Hon's) may change. One should go through the history before taking any decision. The security arrangement should be made before investment. -laxminarayan On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, C Baral wrote: > > Thankyou Laxminarayan babu for your perspective. > Your email points out many of the practical issues that > needs to be tackled. > > I will give my perspective to some of the questions > you pointed out. > > Chitta > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 23:22:37 1997 > > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:04 -0500 (CDT) > > From: Laxminarayan - Das > > Status: RO > > > > Tapan babu, > > > > The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not > > fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in > > the last part of this mail. > > > > I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in > > Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer > > education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated > > before providing this this type of education. > > > > Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 > > DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out > > from the different institutes of Orissa. > > I am sure the number coming out of just from the city > of Bangalore, or Hyderabad is much much more. > > According to NASSCOM (National Software someting -- Its chairman is Dewang Mehta) > ``Companies have projected a demand for appx 41,000 software professionsal > each year between 1996 to 1998. With some 55,000 (total) new IT > professionals entering the workforce during this period, the job market > will remain tight.'' > > > > These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. > > Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four > > engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government > > ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides > > these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side > > Orissa. > > > > Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders > > are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. > > Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading > > national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs > > with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and > > DCA degree holders. > > > Most of teh PGDCA and DCA come out of the private institutions like NIIT > etc. Because of no regulations, their teaching, examination, > everything is questionable. From my point of view they are just making money > and giving very little in return. > At least the B.Sc (Hons) exams will be legitimate. > > > > > > Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the > > quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other > > I would not count the PGDCA and DCA from the private institutions. > > > states of India. The real problem is in quality. > > Just cpompare with cities like Hyderabad and Pune (not even Bangalore). > > But you are very right about quality and this must be > seriously looked at. > > > > The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes > > are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is > > in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer > > institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and > > updated computer software are dream to our students. > > > I agree. > But, as I said in my previous mail yesterday, I would not > wait for the quality to improve before > providing opportunity to a larger segment of population. > > Moreover, as I have learnt in the US, competition creates > quality. When the Bsc (Hons) programs are in place, > ORissa Engg College will have no choice but to improve its quality. > > > > While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science > > faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a > > student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in > > each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government > > enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. > > The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals > > during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in > > comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is > > not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine > > the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the > > approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after > > the availability of window 97 in market. > > State institutions will have their problems, and we need to > find ways to solve them. But, again, we can not just stop > and not provide opportunities to others. > (As an analogy, should the Orissa govt just focuss > on Utkal, Berhampur and Sambalpur univ and make their programs great > before opeining PG programs at Fakirmohan. No, I think > they did the right thing by opening PG programs in many > colleges like Fakirmohan College. > As you mention later, FM has some good faculty in their PG Maths.) > I completely agree about improving quality, but not > by freezing the current availability. > > > > > > > In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of > > mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges > > of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic > > Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, > > Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur > > University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some > > PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges > > offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining > > colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept > > their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College > > Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of > > Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer > > theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) > > using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some > > hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as > > I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend > > for the service. > > > > Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic > > mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and > > the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas > > on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc > > were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But > > the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing > > sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges > > had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those > > lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. > > > > > As you earlier mentioned to me the training was done for 6 months, > with no exams and questionable instructors. > We should learn from this and make the training process better, > not stop training altogether. > Based on your comments, I have suggested very strong training > guidelines. Your additional comments on them are welcome. > > > > > This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those > > who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science > > students are increasing day by day and number of seats in > > engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read > > literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. > > > > This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas > > and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to > > improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our > > state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some > > software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or > > Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. > > > > Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not > > made it has no impact in mass. > > > > You are right about the network. > I have stressed about it in the proposal. > But, there is also another point. > The vast cost of networking is justifiable when it > benefits large number of people i.e. if it can be > connected to large number of colleges/institutions. > More simply, suppose network is available at point A and not at B. > If only 5 instituiytions at B need to be networking the cost > per institution is much more than if say 30 institutions in point > B are to be networked. This is because the cost of connecting > A to B will almost remain same and the cost of connecting > from B to an institution is comparatively much less. > > > In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch > > this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most > > of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in > > computer training either from private institutions or from study centers > > of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If > > these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again > > crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. > > > > The steps will be to get the B.Sc program approved by the Universities. > Then the govt probably will start at a few colleges at first. > But many private colleges can pick it up on their own. > I sincerely hope the govt has an ultimate goal of having such > programs in all govt colleges where there is already > B.Sc Hons in Physics and Maths within say 5 years. > > > > > > In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, > > journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to > > building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. > > This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading > > colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books > > and advance software > > > > > No disagreement here. > > > > Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened > > in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. > > and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will > > need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. > > from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching > > FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. > > > > Without developing infrastructure like network connection, > > library, computing facility, this project will not full fill > > its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified > > persons. > > > > No disagreement here, except that the B.Sc hons exam being > a legitaimite exam will produce many qualified persons too. > > > Thanks again for your comments. > > > cheers > Chitta > > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > > > > > I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other > > > ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in > > > establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . > > > Thanks, > > > Tapan > > > > > > Tapan Padhi, > > > DBA, FEF Information Systems, > > > Lincoln, NE-68505 > > > Ph # 402-479-6905 > > > Fax # 402-79-6658 > > > > > > >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> > > > Thanks. > > > > > > I really want it to be avaialable in at least > > > one college in each district, not just in 3-4 > > > places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not > > > just BBSR.) > > > > > > It would be great if you could also talk to other > > > Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > Chitta > > > > > > > > with thanks > > -laxminarayan > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > > > > Visiting Scientist > > Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University > > E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 > > Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. > > College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. > > Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) Visiting Scientist Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Fri Jul 11 23:31:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00357; Fri, 11 Jul 97 23:31:26 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id XAA13641 for ornet-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.tamu.edu (0@clavin.cs.tamu.edu [128.194.130.106]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA13636 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (2233@sparc15 [128.194.133.115]) by cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28645; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from lndas@localhost) by sparc15.cs.tamu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15977; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:09:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:09:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Laxminarayan - Das To: C Baral Cc: "'ornet'" Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic , , , and help! -Reply -Reply In-Reply-To: <9707111524.AA27726@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear Chitta Babu, I am not satisfied with the suggestion that the state government will open some B.Sc.(Hon`s Comp.Sc.) in some of it`s colleges and the private colleges will start and run this subject by there own effort. This will make political interference within the study atmosphere. Here I am giving two instants. One is the creation of 31 vocational training centers in Orissa to train students for self employment. In later days it's number extended to 181 and how that is a burden to the state government. Another instant is the political interference of proposed Vyasa Vihar university. In 1988 state government decided to open +2 Vocational colleges to train Oriya students in the areas of horticulture, fishery, plant protection, radio and TV repairing, electronic appliances maintenance, etc.. For this central government gave 60% of the proposed expenditure. Initially state government opened 31 colleges nearly two colleges in each district(at that time number of district was 13). For smooth runing of this program state government established a new directorate named Director of Vocational Education. All district education circle office has its branch offices. The location of these schools were decided by the politicians on the basis of discretion of Ministers/MLAS violating the rules of central government. Central government norm was to select the locations closure to industry, agriculture farms, breeding centers, etc in order to save infrastructure costs. But the motive of politicians were to earn money from contractors. There was a few budget in construction of building. But state government spend 25% money in building construction, (it would be better if these buildings were constructed properly and ultimately it could become the assets to our state.) 10% money in purchasing laboratory equipments and 30% in salary of faculty and supporting staffs. But the problem started from the contract employees, students, the host institution, and from the politicians. In original proposal the norm of appointment of faculties was on contract basis. The principals who were OES(Orissa educational service) have got authorization to appoint the faculties (called PGT's)on contract basis from the government engineers, veterinary doctors, horticulturists, agriculture officers, or lecturers from local colleges. But politicians interfered in the appointment and forced principals to appoint some local unemployed political youths. Some were not even qualified in their respective fields. There were incidents of change of the basic subjects to employ their own people. For example to provide employment to a commerce graduate in certain +2 Govt. vocational school the local political reprenstative changed one vocational subject(initially each vocational school was allowed to open four vocational subjects from the list of vocational subjects specified by director of vocational education.) and convinced the Director of vocational education to recognize accountancy as a vocational subject instead of that particular subject. The principals of some colleges made false teaching bills and gave percentage to the local politicians. The training/education started from March, 1988 and first batch of student came out in February 1991. Some agriculture farms and private fishing company employed 35% of students. In the subsequent years some more students came out and number of unemployed student increased day by day they asked state government and banks for loans to open their enterprises, but state government did not respond. On the other hand MLA's forced government to open new such colleges in their constituencies. Government opened 150 new such colleges in the premises of some government high schools and private colleges located in different regions of the state. The politicians appointed their own candidate violating employment rule for recruitment of permanent faculty/staffs.(As per the norm of appointment the supporting staff would be selected through the Orissa Staff Selection Council and faculty would be recruited by OPSC.) The head masters of some host school demanded for the post of principal through there union. But government was unable to pay 181 principals. The pay scale of a principal was same as that of any class 1 IAS. When government did not accept their proposal, some head master did not allow to run the colleges in their campus. The laboratory, instruments and other things were lost. The student made some camp in front of PMG square. On the other hand remuneration of faculty was just RS. 25 per class. The employee of these school were not getting their remuneration regularly as budget was meant for 31 schools, government was managing 181 institutions. The frustrated staffs and students go on strike and met education ministers and asked to clarify the intention of this type of education, future of staffs and students employment etc. But government is yet to settle that long run problem. The problems those were propagated during that project are listed below. Interfarence of political parties. Deviation of location, course, and degree plan. Violation of own rule. The laboratory equipments of some colleges were available in pen and papers. Corruption and nexus between politicians and executive person. According to your proposed project who will guaranty that the following things will not happen: * Political interference in selection of lecturers for training, appointment of lecturers and student selection. * Student unrest in different colleges where this course will not offered. (In my seven years teaching experience in different colleges of Orissa I have seen student never watch the consequence of their own activities and can be the instruments of politicians. Who use them to earn cheap popularity. The best example is proposed VYASA VIHAR university. The intellectual of Balasore proposed this university and run a token one in Balasore town. The advisory board processed to the paper work from UGC and the central government. When they required the state government clearance, the education minister who was from Mayurbhanja, did not clear that rather he insisted the students of Mayurbhanj to protest that proposal by holding rally. The students did that. As a result the ministry set a committee to decide the location of the proposed university. The committee recommended Baripada is the proper place for proposed university. When the people of Balasore asked their representative to change the spot and bring it in favour of the people of Balasore. He persuade the committee to review the report but could not succeed rather unveiled the truth that a person belongs to Mayurbhanja was in that committee and he has strongly recommended infavour of Baripada. The student of Balasore went on rally and picketed in front of the collectorate and stopped train, closed shops of Balasore etc.. In both places there were the politicians who created difference between the intellectuals of these two districts. It is interesting now people of Bhadrak are claiming that university to be established in their district. It is true that claim of all these three districts are genuine in the sense of workload, quality education, population strength, backwardness in professional institutions and availability of intellectuals. The real requirement is one university in each district. But government is not ready to open and politicians are preserving unrest in the name of development of state. Neither co-ordinating committee member nor the interested intellectual thought their effort will deliver this type of unpleasant situation.) * Like the change of location of vocational training centers the location of proposed B.sc.(Comp. Sc. Hon's) may change. One should go through the history before taking any decision. The security arrangement should be made before investment. -laxminarayan On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, C Baral wrote: > > Thankyou Laxminarayan babu for your perspective. > Your email points out many of the practical issues that > needs to be tackled. > > I will give my perspective to some of the questions > you pointed out. > > Chitta > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 23:22:37 1997 > > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:04 -0500 (CDT) > > From: Laxminarayan - Das > > Status: RO > > > > Tapan babu, > > > > The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not > > fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in > > the last part of this mail. > > > > I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in > > Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer > > education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated > > before providing this this type of education. > > > > Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 > > DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out > > from the different institutes of Orissa. > > I am sure the number coming out of just from the city > of Bangalore, or Hyderabad is much much more. > > According to NASSCOM (National Software someting -- Its chairman is Dewang Mehta) > ``Companies have projected a demand for appx 41,000 software professionsal > each year between 1996 to 1998. With some 55,000 (total) new IT > professionals entering the workforce during this period, the job market > will remain tight.'' > > > > These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. > > Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four > > engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government > > ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides > > these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side > > Orissa. > > > > Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders > > are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. > > Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading > > national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs > > with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and > > DCA degree holders. > > > Most of teh PGDCA and DCA come out of the private institutions like NIIT > etc. Because of no regulations, their teaching, examination, > everything is questionable. From my point of view they are just making money > and giving very little in return. > At least the B.Sc (Hons) exams will be legitimate. > > > > > > Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the > > quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other > > I would not count the PGDCA and DCA from the private institutions. > > > states of India. The real problem is in quality. > > Just cpompare with cities like Hyderabad and Pune (not even Bangalore). > > But you are very right about quality and this must be > seriously looked at. > > > > The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes > > are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is > > in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer > > institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and > > updated computer software are dream to our students. > > > I agree. > But, as I said in my previous mail yesterday, I would not > wait for the quality to improve before > providing opportunity to a larger segment of population. > > Moreover, as I have learnt in the US, competition creates > quality. When the Bsc (Hons) programs are in place, > ORissa Engg College will have no choice but to improve its quality. > > > > While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science > > faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a > > student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in > > each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government > > enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. > > The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals > > during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in > > comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is > > not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine > > the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the > > approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after > > the availability of window 97 in market. > > State institutions will have their problems, and we need to > find ways to solve them. But, again, we can not just stop > and not provide opportunities to others. > (As an analogy, should the Orissa govt just focuss > on Utkal, Berhampur and Sambalpur univ and make their programs great > before opeining PG programs at Fakirmohan. No, I think > they did the right thing by opening PG programs in many > colleges like Fakirmohan College. > As you mention later, FM has some good faculty in their PG Maths.) > I completely agree about improving quality, but not > by freezing the current availability. > > > > > > > In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of > > mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges > > of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic > > Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, > > Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur > > University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some > > PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges > > offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining > > colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept > > their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College > > Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of > > Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer > > theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) > > using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some > > hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as > > I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend > > for the service. > > > > Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic > > mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and > > the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas > > on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc > > were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But > > the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing > > sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges > > had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those > > lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. > > > > > As you earlier mentioned to me the training was done for 6 months, > with no exams and questionable instructors. > We should learn from this and make the training process better, > not stop training altogether. > Based on your comments, I have suggested very strong training > guidelines. Your additional comments on them are welcome. > > > > > This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those > > who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science > > students are increasing day by day and number of seats in > > engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read > > literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. > > > > This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas > > and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to > > improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our > > state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some > > software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or > > Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. > > > > Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not > > made it has no impact in mass. > > > > You are right about the network. > I have stressed about it in the proposal. > But, there is also another point. > The vast cost of networking is justifiable when it > benefits large number of people i.e. if it can be > connected to large number of colleges/institutions. > More simply, suppose network is available at point A and not at B. > If only 5 instituiytions at B need to be networking the cost > per institution is much more than if say 30 institutions in point > B are to be networked. This is because the cost of connecting > A to B will almost remain same and the cost of connecting > from B to an institution is comparatively much less. > > > In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch > > this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most > > of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in > > computer training either from private institutions or from study centers > > of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If > > these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again > > crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. > > > > The steps will be to get the B.Sc program approved by the Universities. > Then the govt probably will start at a few colleges at first. > But many private colleges can pick it up on their own. > I sincerely hope the govt has an ultimate goal of having such > programs in all govt colleges where there is already > B.Sc Hons in Physics and Maths within say 5 years. > > > > > > In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, > > journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to > > building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. > > This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading > > colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books > > and advance software > > > > > No disagreement here. > > > > Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened > > in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. > > and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will > > need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. > > from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching > > FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. > > > > Without developing infrastructure like network connection, > > library, computing facility, this project will not full fill > > its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified > > persons. > > > > No disagreement here, except that the B.Sc hons exam being > a legitaimite exam will produce many qualified persons too. > > > Thanks again for your comments. > > > cheers > Chitta > > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > > > > > I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other > > > ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in > > > establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . > > > Thanks, > > > Tapan > > > > > > Tapan Padhi, > > > DBA, FEF Information Systems, > > > Lincoln, NE-68505 > > > Ph # 402-479-6905 > > > Fax # 402-79-6658 > > > > > > >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> > > > Thanks. > > > > > > I really want it to be avaialable in at least > > > one college in each district, not just in 3-4 > > > places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not > > > just BBSR.) > > > > > > It would be great if you could also talk to other > > > Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > Chitta > > > > > > > > with thanks > > -laxminarayan > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > > > > Visiting Scientist > > Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University > > E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 > > Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. > > College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. > > Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) Visiting Scientist Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Sat Jul 12 05:12:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13610; Sat, 12 Jul 97 05:12:04 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id FAA20204 for ornet-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA20185 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:18:35 -0400 (EDT) From: mpatnaik@IX.NETCOM.COM Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA20106 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:18:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lax-ca19-10.ix.netcom.com(204.31.253.42) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020104; Sat Jul 12 04:17:54 1997 Message-Id: <33C74C9D.34F5@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:21:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: We should spearhead similar Campaign for People's Right to Information movement in Orissa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO An Appeal ... the Nazi's came first for the communists and I did not speak because I was not a communist. Then they Came for the Jews and I did not Speak because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionist I did not speak because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I was a Protestant and so i did not speak. When they came for me There was none left to speak for anyone. (by F. Neimoller, a German Pastor - free translation) This is an appeal to all of us literate, thinking people. Independent India is fifty years old this year. Many of us were bom over the cusp of Independence. Many, remember the years of struggle and all of us have lived with the comfort of having been led by stalwarts like Gandhi, Ambedkar, M N Roy, Bhagat Singh, Nehru and a host of others. In 1950 "We the People of India" gave ourselves a Constitution and declared ourselves a Republic. We made a promise to ourselves and to the future generations, to nurture values basic for a secular and just democratic society. We promised to secure for all our citizens a life of basic human dignity. We also know what has come to pass- corruption mismanagement of governance and crumbling social mores. Present day politics is not even a caricature of the Mahatma's values. In this scenario most of us who are working professionals today have narrowed our universes into controllable private lives. We strive to have a meaningful life within what we often call an "apolitical" world view. But our standing away from party politics cannot justify our lack of active interest in the governance of this country. Most of us who want to do something are baffled both by the enormity of the problem and the lack of a personal agenda of intervention. What do we do? This letter comes from the midst of a Campaign for the Peoples Right to Information in public life. This three year old campaign is currently spearheading an indefinite Dharna in Jaipur demanding that the state government keep its word, and issue orders granting citizens the right to information in development works. The state government has made repeated announcements, pronouncements, and promises but, not surprisingly it has refused to translate its words into concrete action. The Dhama which is on since the 26th of May 1997 has one simple non-negotiable demand- that the government implement its promises on the Right to Information. This campaign which began on the basis of a self defined people's agenda for survival has combined political and economic questions. The question asked is very simple - hamara paisa hamara hisab- "As government money is our money, give us the accounts". It may seem simplistic. But every citizen of this country will have to ask of whatever goverment agency they deal with, to render accounts. Literally the government has to be accountable. We appeal to you as sensitive citizens of this country to join the campaign which would have an impact on all political and public bodies. We need to begin in an earnest manner the act of questioning and monitoring the government, which functions through a plurality of agencies which affect each one of us. We all need to know why roads are the way they are, inspite of taxes being paid and why do essential services run erratically? If prices go up why do they? Why are promises made by the governments never kept? Why do we take this duplicity and hypocrisy so indifferently? Why do we let others hijack our rights? All political parties have pledged support in principle to transparency in government functioning and to legilsate on the fight to information. But, the government- politicians and bureaucracy- are reluctant to revoke the culture of secrecy. The fear of sharing information is an inheritance of many years of colonial rule. Arguments of victimisation and blackmail are chimeras. No blackmail or victimisation is possible if information is freely available. We have only to look at Scandinavia and the USA to know how easy it is to share information. In India, recently, orders passed in Bilaspur division in Madhya Pradesh, on the fight to information in departments that affect day to day life have had a dramatic impact. They have shown us that empowering citizens with such an entitlment even in a country like India is both practical and essential. It is in the interest of the common citizen to make it a real fight. Help make India a country of which we are "proud citizens"- not bowing under the ignominy and the shame of repeated scams and breakdown of public ethics. Join the campaign. Wherever you are, and whatever you do, begin to play an effective and visible role in the way our country is run. We will all have to take time off our personal busy schedules to work the system. Democracy does not begin or end with a vote cast every five years. WE have to make it work. If you can help with suggestions, financial contributions or professional support write c/o Kavita Srivastava, 76 Shantiniketan Colony, Tonk Phatak, Jaipur, Rajasthan 302 015. Phone No. 0 1 41-591408, Fax No. (attn Kavita) 510601 - Cheques/ drafts may be made out to the National Campaign for People's Right to Information From chitta Sat Jul 12 10:23:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03675; Sat, 12 Jul 97 10:23:20 MDT Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 10:23:19 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707121623.AA03675@cs.utep.edu> To: lndas@cs.tamu.edu Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic , , , and help! -Reply -Reply Cc: chitta Status: RO There are all kinds of things that are wrong in Orissa/India, and I agree that it is frustrating. But in practical terms I can do or change very little. If you have any particular suggestions to make the proposed B.Sc program better (besides not doing them at all) I can try to incorporate them (as suggestions) in the proposal. But, of course the govt may just ignore it. I am not their boss, they don't have to listen to me. With whatever little authority that I have, in practical terms, only things I can do is 1. Try to convince the Uinvs to approve such a prog 2. Convince the govt to start in a few places 3. and hopefully, partcularly colleges can be targeted and the govt can be persuaded to open it there, if enough well-wishers promise additional support. Your example makes a very good point that good ideas can be implemented badly. We can try to prevent bad implementations; but our democracy is not at the stage where we can guarantee it - especially, since we are not in Orissa physically. But, that should not stop or deter us from doing something. We need to take risks. Chitta ------------------------- On another note (not directly related to your email), we have to be innovative and lead the pack. Not just follow the pack and open programs only after other states or UGC has done it. (Thats what we did in case of MCA/PGDCA etc. MCA is a good idea and it was good that we adopetd it. But since every one else also has it, we don't distinguish ourselves.) We have to think what programs are good for Orissa and introduce them, regardless of whether the UGC/AICTE/other states have it or not and let the others follow us. That is the only way we can beat the curve and be ahead of others, instead of perpetually following them. Innovation, new ideas, and calculated risk taking are necessary for becoming a leader. Ask the successfull software companies in the silicon valley! From ratan@prl.ernet.in Sat Jul 12 23:18:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: from prlfs.prl.ernet.in by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10266; Sat, 12 Jul 97 23:18:37 MDT Received: from prlcs2.prl.ernet.in by prlfs.prl.ernet.in (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA45632; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:48:20 +0530 Received: from localhost by prlcs2.prl.ernet.in (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43060; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:47:55 +0530 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:47:55 +0530 (IST) From: Ratan Mohapatra To: C Baral Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <9707121624.AA03731@cs.utep.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > There are all kinds of things that are wrong in Orissa/India, > and I agree that it is frustrating. I was kind of going through all the mails that're devoted to transform Orissa to a silicon valeey. Sounds certainly great!! The way things are at present is pretty ridiculous. Our people back home are still in those good ole 80's or so. If you tell them the recent advances, they are humble enough to appreciate it, but are kind of lazy (??) to be a part of it. Well, I come from Puri and this is what i observed there. I don't have much idea about other places. So what I feel that if we can elevate the public consciousness, then things going to change, and all your palns will work faster. I remember one of those quotes my teacher used say, " You can take the horse to the water, but you cannot make it drunk!!". Sorry if I'm bit rude, but that's the way things are back home. I remember, most of my friends who just keep wasting their time for those silly Civil services, and things like that and when they don't get through they get into all sort of frustrating acts! Well, I'm in a carreer in which I cannot be of much help in your programs, but someday I'd love to get into these things. By the way, you're doing a nice work. GOOD LUCK. Ratan. (Ratan K Mohapatra) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>SOSGE PHYSICAL RESEARCH LABORATORY Navarangpura AHMEDABAD-380 009 Fax : (91) 79 6560502 http://www.prl.ernet.in/~ratan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From chitta Sun Jul 13 12:20:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19590; Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:20:25 MDT Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:20:25 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707131820.AA19590@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: forwarded news item -- A critical shortage of programmers ... Cc: chitta Status: RO Article 6028 in misc.news.southasia (moderated): From: nreddy@soupy.sbi.com (Narotham Reddy) Subject: Critical shortage of programmers prompts worldwide labor hunt Date: 12 Jul 1997 12:38:41 -0600 Organization: Open Systems Lines: 244 NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.nyx.net FORGET THE HUDDLED MASSES: SEND NERDS Business Week, Latest issue A critical shortage of programmers has prompted a worldwide labor hunt As a headhunter, George Van Derven has an unlikely connection: Russia's former state airline, Aeroflot. Not that Van Derven trades in pilots, flight mechanics, or surly Russian flight attendants. But in a former career, he sold a computerized reservation system to Aeroflot and came to know the talented programmers stashed in the back offices. When Aeroflot broke up into regional carriers in 1992, Van Derven promptly tapped its brain pool. Now, as president of Alternative Technology Resources Inc. in Sacramento, Van Derven is mining a rich lode of programming talent and busily dispatching it to understaffed computer departments throughout the Western world. Other recruiters should be so lucky. High-tech headhunters for Andersen Consulting tramp through technical schools in Budapest and job fairs in Manila. At a recent training session for programmers in Holland, Microsoft Corp. hired bouncers to keep headhunters at bay. And a recruiter for IBM's Global Services Div., who is trying to hire 15,000 software hands this year alone, introduces himself as James R. Bunch, ''as in bunch of jobs.'' The Information Revolution is racing ahead of its vital raw material: brainpower. As demand explodes for computerized applications for everything from electronic commerce on the Internet to sorting out the Year 2000 glitch, companies are finding themselves strapped for programmers. In the U.S., alone, which accounts for two-thirds of the world's $300 billion market in software products and services, some 190,000 high-tech jobs stand open, most of them for programmers, according to the Information Technology Assn. SOARING SALARIES. That's sending companies scouring the globe for talent--and lifting salaries skyward. A typical programmer's wages, now some $70,000, is jumping 13% a year, and far higher in the hottest niches, such as Java Internet software and SAP business applications. These days, $20,000 signing bonuses are commonplace and stock options are being handed out with as little fanfare as office supplies. If the pace keeps up, experts say, ballooning salaries could wind up damaging the global tech machine as margins are squeezed and investments postponed. And relief is nowhere in sight. Experts predict the gap between computer-science students and expected demand won't ease for a decade, if then. Too many bright young people, especially in Europe and the U.S., consider programming geek work and choose other careers. In the U.S., the number of computer-science graduates has plummeted in the past decade or so, from 48,000 graduates in 1984 to an estimated 26,000 this year. ''This is a real limiting factor to growth,'' says Avron Barr, a researcher at Stanford Computer Industry Project who is investigating the shortage. Indeed, for high-tech companies, the dearth of programmers is the greatest threat to expansion in the coming year--far more menacing, they say, than an economic slump or competition in the marketplace. And it's not just a problem for tech companies. Plenty of others are desperate for the same talent. Auto makers from Tokyo to Detroit are packing more computing power into their cars and plants. Banks, brokerages, and phone companies are rushing to outdo each other with the zippiest online services, all requiring herds of nerds. Those that choose not to install the newest technology, says Owens Corning CIO Michael Radcliff, are ''creating a competitive liability.'' Of course, if you're willing to pay--or have the stock options to entice--you could be up to your propeller hats in programmers. In Silicon Valley, star programmers are swimming in stock options, driving Porsches, and buying homes in the pricey Los Altos hills. At Netscape Communications Corp., which plans to hire more than 1,000 programmers this year, employees receive up to $5,000 just for a successful referral and the pampered programmers are treated to onsite massages, teeth-cleanings, and laundry service. The company lines up their 49ers tickets and books their white-water rafting vacations. All this to keep them from succumbing to a stream of calls from headhunters. ''Everybody's going crazy now trying to find these folks,'' says Margie Mader, Netscape's human-resources director. How did the shortage get so bad? For years, tech companies had little reason to fret. In the early '90s, the industry snapped up hundreds of thousands of workers who were dropped into the job market when large corporations downsized--a source now running dry. TEDIOUS WORK. At the same time, the very act of writing software has not speeded up despite the computer revolution and the terabytes of information hurtling around the globe. Today, even the best of programmers painstakingly turns out some 10 lines of code a day. To whip up today's software programs--even a cellular telephone requires some 300,000 lines of code--takes armies of programmers laboriously writing away. Consider this: There are six million software programmers and counting in the world today, two million of them in the U.S. and one million in Japan. As an industrial model, it's akin to pre-Gutenberg monasteries with their legions of scribbling monks. For years, global savants pooh-poohed the pending programmer crunch by pointing to India, which boasted a seemingly bottomless reserve of techies. India, they said, would be to software what Saudi Arabia was to oil. And true, with 50,000 programmers pouring out of schools every year--twice the American total--India is a valuable labor pool. But with global technology bursting to $3 trillion this decade--four times higher than in the '80s--India's supply simply isn't enough. And no other plentiful source of software skills appears to be on the horizon. Russia has promise, but it's limited: Few of its programmers speak English or understand business applications. China is a possibility, but it's likely to employ most of its programmers over the next decade for its own massive development projects. ''I had this one programmer from China,'' laments one official at Electronic Data Systems Corp. ''I took him through the whole immigration process, got his papers. Then he got a better offer.'' RAID BAIT. Naturally, in this world of predators, there's a pecking order. Sitting on top are the fast-growth companies with hot Internet technologies. They're magnets for talented programmers, and they can pad their offers with rich stock options. Service companies such as Andersen Consulting, IBM Global Services, and Ernst & Young, which are helping companies install systems worldwide, are forced to routinely dole out six-figure salaries to programmers with experience in business applications. They compete with countless body shops--outsourcing companies that pay as much as $300,000 for skilled programmers willing to live on the road. At the bottom of the pile are the corporate tech departments throughout the world. Many are short on money and stock options. And if they install a popular system, bringing their staff up to date on something new from, say, Oracle Corp. or the German software giant SAP, their departments get raided in no time. Don Yates became familiar with SAP's leading software package for business while helping install the system in the early '90s at Royal LePage Ltd., a real estate company in Toronto. Within a year, the 18-person department was picked clean. ''I was the last one to go,'' says Yates, who now makes three times as much money, some $150,000, as an itinerant programmer for EMI, a Pittsburgh-based company that rents out software talent. No surprise, then, that companies are trying any tactic, including turning to the World Wide Web. Since the Net is where most programmers spend idle hours, growing numbers of recruiters are using it to chase them down. That's where Michael L. McNeal casts his global net. McNeal, human-resources chief at Cisco Systems Inc., needs to hire 1,000 people each quarter, many of them programmers. Like other recruiters, he buys ads on popular Web sites like the Dilbert page, which funnels traffic to Cisco's Web site. There, the company lists some 500 current job openings. Applicants in foreign countries can hit hot buttons to translate the page into Cantonese, Mandarin, Russian. And, by filling out a short questionnaire, they can create a resume and zap it to Cisco. Cisco's Web page draws 500,000 job searches per month. This gives Cisco gobs of data about the job market, including which companies have interested employees. Armed with the best prospects, McNeal then turns to Cisco employees for help, asking them to call recruits, who speak the same language. Like the others, Microsoft recruits on the Web and snaps up startups for talent--some 20 companies in 1996, alone. But to get its software up and running throughout the world, Microsoft relies on service companies, which are grossly understaffed. Microsoft calculates that its service partners are short 41,000 professionals trained to install Microsoft products. This is forcing the company to educate new recruits. With an effort known as Skills 2000, Microsoft is pushing into 350 schools and colleges around the world. It hammers out curricula that will produce more programmers, such as adding computer training in business schools. A big part of the effort is in Europe, a major market that has 18 million unemployed workers. Microsoft's solution is to invite jobless Europeans in 11 countries into free training programs. In the past year, 3,000 Europeans have gone through the program, with 98% of them landing jobs. It's in this $170 billion market for global software services, including the Big Six consulting firms, IBM Global Servics, Manpower, and many others, that demand for programmers is especially hot. This is because corporations need loads of help to link far-flung operations with the latest in E-mail networks, inventory control, and finance packages. ''The productive sector of the economy is becoming absolutely dependent on software systems,'' says reengineering author Michael Hammer. ''If SAP vanished, you couldn't buy a can of Coke.'' SPECIALTIES. In the finance capitals of London, Tokyo and Hong Kong, banks are installing vast new systems to adapt to Europe's single currency and Japan's financial deregulation. Meanwhile, they're working overtime to sort out the Year 2000 glitch, the dating problem companies face when the year of double zeroes rolls around. Mastech Corp., a Pittsburgh-based outsourcer, sent a handful of programmers a year ago to follow a Citibank contract from Singapore to London (page 116). Once in London, they found a wealth of other business and started importing more programmers from South Africa, Sri Lanka, India, and Australia. ''We have 50 people now, and we'd hire another 50 today if we could find them,'' says country manager Guil Hastings. As recruiters travel, they focus on regional specialties. The Russians are whizzes at math. India's university at Puna has a strong Japanese language program, which positions it well for Japan's Year 2000 work-load. South African programmers learned to cope during the years of the anti-apartheid boycott with a motley collection of jerry-rigged mainframes. This makes them especially adept at Year 2000 work, which is targeted toward aging mainframe software. As for programmers, the world is their oyster. In a computer lab in Austin, Tex., Natalia Bogataya and her husband, Konstantin Bobovich, both Belorussians and products of Van Derven's so-called Russian connection, labor away on a mainframe program. They've left their college-age children with relatives in Minsk and are debugging insurance software for Computer Sciences Corp. ''We can't use our experience in our country,'' Bobovich explains, ''and my wife said, 'Let's see America.''' Why not? In today's fervid market, programmers can write their own tickets. By Stephen Baker, with Gary McWilliams in Austin, Tex., and Manjeet Kripalani in Bombay From chitta Sun Jul 13 12:23:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19750; Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:23:06 MDT Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:23:06 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707131823.AA19750@cs.utep.edu> To: chitta Status: RO Article 6027 (1 more) in misc.news.southasia (moderated): From: mitra@aecom.yu.edu (Joydeep Mitra) Subject: Holy Cow! What are all these programmers doing in India? Date: 12 Jul 1997 12:33:05 -0600 Organization: Albert Einstein College of Medicine Lines: 123 NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.nyx.net Holy Cow! What are all these programmers doing in India? by Robert X. Cringely: July 11, 1997: PBS Online: http://www.pbs.org/ Last week I was in Hong Kong for the handover to China. This week, I am in India -- specifically, the southern Indian city of Bangalore. While both places are crowded with people, that's where the similarity ends. Hong Kong is a modern low-tech city, while Bangalore is a primitive high-tech one. Huh? While Hong Kong aspires to being the Silicon Valley of Asia, it isn't. The former crown colony's manufacturing tradition is decidedly low-tech, with a heavy emphasis on small toys and plastic flowers. Rather than upgrading manufacturing as the city developed, Hong Kong abandoned building things for selling and financing them. About 85 percent of the Hong Kong economy is based on services. Bangalore, on the other hand, builds things. The Government Soap Factory has been there for 150 years, turning out the same tan-colored bars of sandalwood soap. But down the street, there is also Hindustani Aircraft, where they make jet fighters. And there is lots of computer activity here. Bangalore is the Silicon Valley of India. The reason why Bangalore is India's high tech center is ironic, because in many ways, it is exactly the same reason why California's Silicon Valley came to be: the weather. Bangalore sits on a plateau at an elevation of 3000 feet above sea level. So despite the fact that it is in southern India, Bangalore has a temperate climate with no snow. Building many of India's more sophisticated factories in Bangalore (like the aircraft plants) meant they didn't have to be air conditioned. And the technical staffs liked the good climate, too. When Bill Shockley decided in the mid-1950s to leave AT&T Bell Labs in New Jersey and start the world's first semiconductor company, he could have put the company anywhere. But the inventor of the transistor chose to start Shockley Semiconductor in Mountain View, California, because of the fine weather. Silicon Valley was born. Back in Bangalore, business is booming and the business that is booming is software. All the big players are here, including Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, and Novell. But why would these companies choose to set up business in a place with dubious electricity, suspect hygiene, beggars everywhere and cattle sleeping in the street? Because that's where the programmers are. India's universities produce more engineers each year than any other nation except the United States. And India has a strong emphasis on mathematics, perhaps because they invented it 5000 years ago when most of the rest of us were still living in caves. Maybe this is why there are so many good Indian programmers. But there are other reasons, too. Indians deal well with complexity. One trip through airport customs proves that. While the Indians may have thrown out the British almost 50 years ago, they have joyfully retained the British bureaucracy, fine-tuning it into a perpetual (slow) motion machine. But wait, there's more! The average Indian student has to know at least three languages (English, Hindi, and the official language of their state), each with its own character set. Kids who move from one part of the country to another, or have relatives who did so, may easily speak five or six languages. If you can hack Sanskrit, what's the big deal about Java? Since the technical talent is here, why not hire these people straight out of school and move them to Santa Clara or Seattle? That's what U.S. software companies were doing a few years ago, much to the displeasure of the Indian government. The fact that U.S. Companies don't import Indian programmers as much as they used to has to do with more than government relations, though. There are real reasons for hiring the programmers, but keeping them in India. First, there is money. While an entry-level programmer in Silicon Valley earns $50-60,000 per year, the starting salary for programmers in Bangalore is 80,000 rupees, or around $2,300. Even top programmers make less than $5,000 per year. Even adding in the cost of replacing some of the infrastructure that doesn't really exist in Bangalore (reliable electricity, for example), Indian programmers still cost only 5-10 percent of their U.S. counterparts. That has got to appeal to Bill Gates. But what about the distance? Bangalore is 11.5 time zones away from America. Remember that love of complexity -- India has half a time zone to go with its 300 million Hindu gods. Well, the distance turns out not to be a liability, but an advantage, because it means India is working while America is sleeping and vice versa. If a multinational software company is working on a rush project, this means they can effectively code 24 hours-per-day, shifting the work back and forth over the Internet twice a day. And in the area of code maintenance and bug-fixing, a problem that's discovered in the U.S. can be sent to India and fixed overnight. This all sounds good for America, but what does it do for India? It brings in money, for one thing -- lots of hard currency -- and India needs money to develop its infrastructure. Remember that Bangalore is about the nicest Indian city -- this is India lite -- yet my white bread TV crew from Oregon was shocked at what they saw. Bangalore's Cyber Cafe looked from the inside just like its counterpart in Palo Alto, but two guards were at the door to keep out beggars. The street in front of the Cafe was partly paved and partly not. Trash was everywhere, along with little children with dirty faces and dull eyes, tugging at sleeves and asking for money. The street was packed with two-stroke motorbikes and auto-rickshaws, honking their horns and filling the air with fumes. They still use leaded gas in India. I went to work with a young programmer named Sundar, who took me on the back of his scooter. We were almost the only people wearing helmets; these were available because Sundar's roommate was killed on a motorbike two months before and Sundar took that as a sign. Traffic appeared to me to be a nightmare, but Sundar was calm because we'd waited until after rush hour to leave. There may be traffic rules or there may not -- I couldn't tell -- but it was clear that the many traffic cops play only symbolic roles. In stark contrast to the street scene, Sundar's wood-panelled cubicle felt like a bank lobby. His three programming partners (two women and a man) were clicking away on the most modern equipment. This could have been Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto. There's good and bad in this picture. Many of the programmers I talked to were planning still to move to America as soon as they could afford it. Software developed for export is untaxed by the Indian government, so little of this technology trickles down to local markets. And unlike California, there is no tradition of venture capital or startup companies. So while they call Bangalore the Silicon Valley of India, it really isn't. It just looks that way. From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Sun Jul 13 13:56:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25022; Sun, 13 Jul 97 13:56:44 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id OAA22396 for ornet-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.utep.edu (cs.utep.edu [129.108.1.41]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22390 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19590; Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:20:25 MDT Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:20:25 MDT From: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707131820.AA19590@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: forwarded news item -- A critical shortage of programmers ... Cc: chitta@cs.utep.edu Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Article 6028 in misc.news.southasia (moderated): From: nreddy@soupy.sbi.com (Narotham Reddy) Subject: Critical shortage of programmers prompts worldwide labor hunt Date: 12 Jul 1997 12:38:41 -0600 Organization: Open Systems Lines: 244 NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.nyx.net FORGET THE HUDDLED MASSES: SEND NERDS Business Week, Latest issue A critical shortage of programmers has prompted a worldwide labor hunt As a headhunter, George Van Derven has an unlikely connection: Russia's former state airline, Aeroflot. Not that Van Derven trades in pilots, flight mechanics, or surly Russian flight attendants. But in a former career, he sold a computerized reservation system to Aeroflot and came to know the talented programmers stashed in the back offices. When Aeroflot broke up into regional carriers in 1992, Van Derven promptly tapped its brain pool. Now, as president of Alternative Technology Resources Inc. in Sacramento, Van Derven is mining a rich lode of programming talent and busily dispatching it to understaffed computer departments throughout the Western world. Other recruiters should be so lucky. High-tech headhunters for Andersen Consulting tramp through technical schools in Budapest and job fairs in Manila. At a recent training session for programmers in Holland, Microsoft Corp. hired bouncers to keep headhunters at bay. And a recruiter for IBM's Global Services Div., who is trying to hire 15,000 software hands this year alone, introduces himself as James R. Bunch, ''as in bunch of jobs.'' The Information Revolution is racing ahead of its vital raw material: brainpower. As demand explodes for computerized applications for everything from electronic commerce on the Internet to sorting out the Year 2000 glitch, companies are finding themselves strapped for programmers. In the U.S., alone, which accounts for two-thirds of the world's $300 billion market in software products and services, some 190,000 high-tech jobs stand open, most of them for programmers, according to the Information Technology Assn. SOARING SALARIES. That's sending companies scouring the globe for talent--and lifting salaries skyward. A typical programmer's wages, now some $70,000, is jumping 13% a year, and far higher in the hottest niches, such as Java Internet software and SAP business applications. These days, $20,000 signing bonuses are commonplace and stock options are being handed out with as little fanfare as office supplies. If the pace keeps up, experts say, ballooning salaries could wind up damaging the global tech machine as margins are squeezed and investments postponed. And relief is nowhere in sight. Experts predict the gap between computer-science students and expected demand won't ease for a decade, if then. Too many bright young people, especially in Europe and the U.S., consider programming geek work and choose other careers. In the U.S., the number of computer-science graduates has plummeted in the past decade or so, from 48,000 graduates in 1984 to an estimated 26,000 this year. ''This is a real limiting factor to growth,'' says Avron Barr, a researcher at Stanford Computer Industry Project who is investigating the shortage. Indeed, for high-tech companies, the dearth of programmers is the greatest threat to expansion in the coming year--far more menacing, they say, than an economic slump or competition in the marketplace. And it's not just a problem for tech companies. Plenty of others are desperate for the same talent. Auto makers from Tokyo to Detroit are packing more computing power into their cars and plants. Banks, brokerages, and phone companies are rushing to outdo each other with the zippiest online services, all requiring herds of nerds. Those that choose not to install the newest technology, says Owens Corning CIO Michael Radcliff, are ''creating a competitive liability.'' Of course, if you're willing to pay--or have the stock options to entice--you could be up to your propeller hats in programmers. In Silicon Valley, star programmers are swimming in stock options, driving Porsches, and buying homes in the pricey Los Altos hills. At Netscape Communications Corp., which plans to hire more than 1,000 programmers this year, employees receive up to $5,000 just for a successful referral and the pampered programmers are treated to onsite massages, teeth-cleanings, and laundry service. The company lines up their 49ers tickets and books their white-water rafting vacations. All this to keep them from succumbing to a stream of calls from headhunters. ''Everybody's going crazy now trying to find these folks,'' says Margie Mader, Netscape's human-resources director. How did the shortage get so bad? For years, tech companies had little reason to fret. In the early '90s, the industry snapped up hundreds of thousands of workers who were dropped into the job market when large corporations downsized--a source now running dry. TEDIOUS WORK. At the same time, the very act of writing software has not speeded up despite the computer revolution and the terabytes of information hurtling around the globe. Today, even the best of programmers painstakingly turns out some 10 lines of code a day. To whip up today's software programs--even a cellular telephone requires some 300,000 lines of code--takes armies of programmers laboriously writing away. Consider this: There are six million software programmers and counting in the world today, two million of them in the U.S. and one million in Japan. As an industrial model, it's akin to pre-Gutenberg monasteries with their legions of scribbling monks. For years, global savants pooh-poohed the pending programmer crunch by pointing to India, which boasted a seemingly bottomless reserve of techies. India, they said, would be to software what Saudi Arabia was to oil. And true, with 50,000 programmers pouring out of schools every year--twice the American total--India is a valuable labor pool. But with global technology bursting to $3 trillion this decade--four times higher than in the '80s--India's supply simply isn't enough. And no other plentiful source of software skills appears to be on the horizon. Russia has promise, but it's limited: Few of its programmers speak English or understand business applications. China is a possibility, but it's likely to employ most of its programmers over the next decade for its own massive development projects. ''I had this one programmer from China,'' laments one official at Electronic Data Systems Corp. ''I took him through the whole immigration process, got his papers. Then he got a better offer.'' RAID BAIT. Naturally, in this world of predators, there's a pecking order. Sitting on top are the fast-growth companies with hot Internet technologies. They're magnets for talented programmers, and they can pad their offers with rich stock options. Service companies such as Andersen Consulting, IBM Global Services, and Ernst & Young, which are helping companies install systems worldwide, are forced to routinely dole out six-figure salaries to programmers with experience in business applications. They compete with countless body shops--outsourcing companies that pay as much as $300,000 for skilled programmers willing to live on the road. At the bottom of the pile are the corporate tech departments throughout the world. Many are short on money and stock options. And if they install a popular system, bringing their staff up to date on something new from, say, Oracle Corp. or the German software giant SAP, their departments get raided in no time. Don Yates became familiar with SAP's leading software package for business while helping install the system in the early '90s at Royal LePage Ltd., a real estate company in Toronto. Within a year, the 18-person department was picked clean. ''I was the last one to go,'' says Yates, who now makes three times as much money, some $150,000, as an itinerant programmer for EMI, a Pittsburgh-based company that rents out software talent. No surprise, then, that companies are trying any tactic, including turning to the World Wide Web. Since the Net is where most programmers spend idle hours, growing numbers of recruiters are using it to chase them down. That's where Michael L. McNeal casts his global net. McNeal, human-resources chief at Cisco Systems Inc., needs to hire 1,000 people each quarter, many of them programmers. Like other recruiters, he buys ads on popular Web sites like the Dilbert page, which funnels traffic to Cisco's Web site. There, the company lists some 500 current job openings. Applicants in foreign countries can hit hot buttons to translate the page into Cantonese, Mandarin, Russian. And, by filling out a short questionnaire, they can create a resume and zap it to Cisco. Cisco's Web page draws 500,000 job searches per month. This gives Cisco gobs of data about the job market, including which companies have interested employees. Armed with the best prospects, McNeal then turns to Cisco employees for help, asking them to call recruits, who speak the same language. Like the others, Microsoft recruits on the Web and snaps up startups for talent--some 20 companies in 1996, alone. But to get its software up and running throughout the world, Microsoft relies on service companies, which are grossly understaffed. Microsoft calculates that its service partners are short 41,000 professionals trained to install Microsoft products. This is forcing the company to educate new recruits. With an effort known as Skills 2000, Microsoft is pushing into 350 schools and colleges around the world. It hammers out curricula that will produce more programmers, such as adding computer training in business schools. A big part of the effort is in Europe, a major market that has 18 million unemployed workers. Microsoft's solution is to invite jobless Europeans in 11 countries into free training programs. In the past year, 3,000 Europeans have gone through the program, with 98% of them landing jobs. It's in this $170 billion market for global software services, including the Big Six consulting firms, IBM Global Servics, Manpower, and many others, that demand for programmers is especially hot. This is because corporations need loads of help to link far-flung operations with the latest in E-mail networks, inventory control, and finance packages. ''The productive sector of the economy is becoming absolutely dependent on software systems,'' says reengineering author Michael Hammer. ''If SAP vanished, you couldn't buy a can of Coke.'' SPECIALTIES. In the finance capitals of London, Tokyo and Hong Kong, banks are installing vast new systems to adapt to Europe's single currency and Japan's financial deregulation. Meanwhile, they're working overtime to sort out the Year 2000 glitch, the dating problem companies face when the year of double zeroes rolls around. Mastech Corp., a Pittsburgh-based outsourcer, sent a handful of programmers a year ago to follow a Citibank contract from Singapore to London (page 116). Once in London, they found a wealth of other business and started importing more programmers from South Africa, Sri Lanka, India, and Australia. ''We have 50 people now, and we'd hire another 50 today if we could find them,'' says country manager Guil Hastings. As recruiters travel, they focus on regional specialties. The Russians are whizzes at math. India's university at Puna has a strong Japanese language program, which positions it well for Japan's Year 2000 work-load. South African programmers learned to cope during the years of the anti-apartheid boycott with a motley collection of jerry-rigged mainframes. This makes them especially adept at Year 2000 work, which is targeted toward aging mainframe software. As for programmers, the world is their oyster. In a computer lab in Austin, Tex., Natalia Bogataya and her husband, Konstantin Bobovich, both Belorussians and products of Van Derven's so-called Russian connection, labor away on a mainframe program. They've left their college-age children with relatives in Minsk and are debugging insurance software for Computer Sciences Corp. ''We can't use our experience in our country,'' Bobovich explains, ''and my wife said, 'Let's see America.''' Why not? In today's fervid market, programmers can write their own tickets. By Stephen Baker, with Gary McWilliams in Austin, Tex., and Manjeet Kripalani in Bombay From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Sun Jul 13 13:57:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25047; Sun, 13 Jul 97 13:57:02 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id OAA22360 for ornet-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cs.utep.edu (cs.utep.edu [129.108.1.41]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22355 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19412; Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:17:43 MDT Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:17:43 MDT From: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707131817.AA19412@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: forwarded news item -- Holy Cow! What are all these programmers doing in India? Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Article 6027 (1 more) in misc.news.southasia (moderated): From: mitra@aecom.yu.edu (Joydeep Mitra) Subject: Holy Cow! What are all these programmers doing in India? Date: 12 Jul 1997 12:33:05 -0600 Organization: Albert Einstein College of Medicine Lines: 123 NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.nyx.net Holy Cow! What are all these programmers doing in India? by Robert X. Cringely: July 11, 1997: PBS Online: http://www.pbs.org/ Last week I was in Hong Kong for the handover to China. This week, I am in India -- specifically, the southern Indian city of Bangalore. While both places are crowded with people, that's where the similarity ends. Hong Kong is a modern low-tech city, while Bangalore is a primitive high-tech one. Huh? While Hong Kong aspires to being the Silicon Valley of Asia, it isn't. The former crown colony's manufacturing tradition is decidedly low-tech, with a heavy emphasis on small toys and plastic flowers. Rather than upgrading manufacturing as the city developed, Hong Kong abandoned building things for selling and financing them. About 85 percent of the Hong Kong economy is based on services. Bangalore, on the other hand, builds things. The Government Soap Factory has been there for 150 years, turning out the same tan-colored bars of sandalwood soap. But down the street, there is also Hindustani Aircraft, where they make jet fighters. And there is lots of computer activity here. Bangalore is the Silicon Valley of India. The reason why Bangalore is India's high tech center is ironic, because in many ways, it is exactly the same reason why California's Silicon Valley came to be: the weather. Bangalore sits on a plateau at an elevation of 3000 feet above sea level. So despite the fact that it is in southern India, Bangalore has a temperate climate with no snow. Building many of India's more sophisticated factories in Bangalore (like the aircraft plants) meant they didn't have to be air conditioned. And the technical staffs liked the good climate, too. When Bill Shockley decided in the mid-1950s to leave AT&T Bell Labs in New Jersey and start the world's first semiconductor company, he could have put the company anywhere. But the inventor of the transistor chose to start Shockley Semiconductor in Mountain View, California, because of the fine weather. Silicon Valley was born. Back in Bangalore, business is booming and the business that is booming is software. All the big players are here, including Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, and Novell. But why would these companies choose to set up business in a place with dubious electricity, suspect hygiene, beggars everywhere and cattle sleeping in the street? Because that's where the programmers are. India's universities produce more engineers each year than any other nation except the United States. And India has a strong emphasis on mathematics, perhaps because they invented it 5000 years ago when most of the rest of us were still living in caves. Maybe this is why there are so many good Indian programmers. But there are other reasons, too. Indians deal well with complexity. One trip through airport customs proves that. While the Indians may have thrown out the British almost 50 years ago, they have joyfully retained the British bureaucracy, fine-tuning it into a perpetual (slow) motion machine. But wait, there's more! The average Indian student has to know at least three languages (English, Hindi, and the official language of their state), each with its own character set. Kids who move from one part of the country to another, or have relatives who did so, may easily speak five or six languages. If you can hack Sanskrit, what's the big deal about Java? Since the technical talent is here, why not hire these people straight out of school and move them to Santa Clara or Seattle? That's what U.S. software companies were doing a few years ago, much to the displeasure of the Indian government. The fact that U.S. Companies don't import Indian programmers as much as they used to has to do with more than government relations, though. There are real reasons for hiring the programmers, but keeping them in India. First, there is money. While an entry-level programmer in Silicon Valley earns $50-60,000 per year, the starting salary for programmers in Bangalore is 80,000 rupees, or around $2,300. Even top programmers make less than $5,000 per year. Even adding in the cost of replacing some of the infrastructure that doesn't really exist in Bangalore (reliable electricity, for example), Indian programmers still cost only 5-10 percent of their U.S. counterparts. That has got to appeal to Bill Gates. But what about the distance? Bangalore is 11.5 time zones away from America. Remember that love of complexity -- India has half a time zone to go with its 300 million Hindu gods. Well, the distance turns out not to be a liability, but an advantage, because it means India is working while America is sleeping and vice versa. If a multinational software company is working on a rush project, this means they can effectively code 24 hours-per-day, shifting the work back and forth over the Internet twice a day. And in the area of code maintenance and bug-fixing, a problem that's discovered in the U.S. can be sent to India and fixed overnight. This all sounds good for America, but what does it do for India? It brings in money, for one thing -- lots of hard currency -- and India needs money to develop its infrastructure. Remember that Bangalore is about the nicest Indian city -- this is India lite -- yet my white bread TV crew from Oregon was shocked at what they saw. Bangalore's Cyber Cafe looked from the inside just like its counterpart in Palo Alto, but two guards were at the door to keep out beggars. The street in front of the Cafe was partly paved and partly not. Trash was everywhere, along with little children with dirty faces and dull eyes, tugging at sleeves and asking for money. The street was packed with two-stroke motorbikes and auto-rickshaws, honking their horns and filling the air with fumes. They still use leaded gas in India. I went to work with a young programmer named Sundar, who took me on the back of his scooter. We were almost the only people wearing helmets; these were available because Sundar's roommate was killed on a motorbike two months before and Sundar took that as a sign. Traffic appeared to me to be a nightmare, but Sundar was calm because we'd waited until after rush hour to leave. There may be traffic rules or there may not -- I couldn't tell -- but it was clear that the many traffic cops play only symbolic roles. In stark contrast to the street scene, Sundar's wood-panelled cubicle felt like a bank lobby. His three programming partners (two women and a man) were clicking away on the most modern equipment. This could have been Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto. There's good and bad in this picture. Many of the programmers I talked to were planning still to move to America as soon as they could afford it. Software developed for export is untaxed by the Indian government, so little of this technology trickles down to local markets. And unlike California, there is no tradition of venture capital or startup companies. So while they call Bangalore the Silicon Valley of India, it really isn't. It just looks that way. From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Mon Jul 14 05:40:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03293; Mon, 14 Jul 97 05:40:07 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id EAA06172 for ornet-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com (hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com [204.160.249.1]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA06156 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 04:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707140836.EAA06156@cs.columbia.edu> Received: by hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA116069511; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:08:31 +0530 From: Gyanendra Kumar Patra Subject: Re: Important proposal for Orissa's development -- Please read, crtic , , , and help! -Reply -Reply To: lndas@CS.TAMU.EDU (Laxminarayan - Das) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:08:31 IST Cc: ornet@cs.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: ; from "Laxminarayan - Das" at Jul 11, 97 10:09 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 112.2] Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO aaLax Dear Laxminarayan Babu: It's quit down to earth discussion on this regard. I fully agree with your concern. but can it be changed immidiately? recently i read from the newspaper that the Andhra CM is going in a big way for the Malayasia Super corridor program. Can i ask why and how? But definitely he is going to be successfull. The way he has approached in the last conferences held in Malauyasia for the same. My comapany HCL is trying to poke into that for getting some business. Like HCL other indian companies are also trying for the same. HCL is preapring for a tie up with Sun fro the same. Where the big IT companies are trying for the program whre comes the political person like AP CM. But he did it by calling Hyderabad based companies and providing the resources. Do we lack in resources/ do we lack in brain power? Do we lack in quality persons? But still we are unable to make it. Why? Only cause is the political frustration. Isn't it? Janakibabu made a grand visit to usa and local newspaapers made a big show on it. But every body is quite doubtfull on the outcome. Because the history has no confidence in the intelligentia. Chitta babu has initiated a bright idea on this. If this is implemented then something can be changed. but if we rely on the political front for this to help, then it is dead sure that it will remain only in the paper and unimplemented ideas. i ma suer there will be lot people who can come out to help for that. who does not like to be in his motherland. Only the atmosperic pressure makes them move out. Being out also they think off doing. But no help from others. This is a prime time when everybody is competing. the competition has started in the political label also. Hope our policy makers will recognise it and act forward to bring our land up. thanks and regards, Gyana. ********************************************************************** Gyanendra K. Patra HCL Consulting Ltd. 3, Udyog Vihar, Phase -1, Guragon. Haryana, India. Ph.+91-124-342371,340980, 342971-75. email: gkpatra@hclind.hcla.com Fax.+91-124 340113,340044 ************************************************************************ WORK HARD AND PLAY RIGHT ************************ > > > Dear Chitta Babu, > > I am not satisfied with the suggestion that the state government will > open some B.Sc.(Hon`s Comp.Sc.) in some of it`s colleges and the > private colleges will start and run this subject by there own effort. > This will make political interference within the study atmosphere. Here I > am giving two instants. One is the creation of 31 vocational training > centers in Orissa to train students for self employment. In later days > it's number extended to 181 and how that is a burden to the state > government. Another instant is the political interference of proposed > Vyasa Vihar university. > > In 1988 state government decided to open +2 Vocational colleges to train > Oriya students in the areas of horticulture, fishery, plant protection, > radio and TV repairing, electronic appliances maintenance, etc.. For > this central government gave 60% of the proposed expenditure. > Initially state government opened 31 colleges nearly two colleges in each > district(at that time number of district was 13). For smooth runing of this > program state government established a new directorate named Director > of Vocational Education. All district education circle office has its > branch offices. The location of these schools were decided by the > politicians on the basis of discretion of Ministers/MLAS violating the > rules of central government. Central government norm was to select the > locations closure to industry, agriculture farms, breeding centers, etc > in order to save infrastructure costs. But the motive of politicians were > to earn money from contractors. There was a few budget in construction of > building. But state government spend 25% money in building construction, > (it would be better if these buildings were constructed properly and > ultimately it could become the assets to our state.) 10% money in > purchasing laboratory equipments and 30% in salary of faculty and supporting > staffs. > > But the problem started from the contract employees, students, the host > institution, and from the politicians. > > In original proposal the norm of appointment of faculties was on contract > basis. The principals who were OES(Orissa educational service) have > got authorization to appoint the faculties (called PGT's)on contract > basis from the government engineers, veterinary doctors, horticulturists, > agriculture officers, or lecturers from local colleges. But politicians > interfered in the appointment and forced principals to appoint some local > unemployed political youths. Some were not even qualified in their > respective fields. There were incidents of change of the basic > subjects to employ their own people. For example to provide employment > to a commerce graduate in certain +2 Govt. vocational school the > local political reprenstative changed one vocational subject(initially > each vocational school was allowed to open four vocational subjects from the > list of vocational subjects specified by director of vocational > education.) and convinced the Director of vocational education to recognize > accountancy as a vocational subject instead of that particular subject. > > The principals of some colleges made false teaching bills and gave > percentage to the local politicians. > > The training/education started from March, 1988 and first batch of > student came out in February 1991. Some agriculture farms and private > fishing company employed 35% of students. In the subsequent years some > more students came out and number of unemployed student increased day > by day they asked state government and banks for loans to open their > enterprises, but state government did not respond. > > On the other hand MLA's forced government to open new such colleges in > their constituencies. Government opened 150 new such colleges > in the premises of some government high schools and private colleges > located in different regions of the state. The politicians appointed > their own candidate violating employment rule for recruitment of > permanent faculty/staffs.(As per the norm of appointment the supporting > staff would be selected through the Orissa Staff Selection Council and > faculty would be recruited by OPSC.) > > The head masters of some host school demanded for the post of principal > through there union. But government was unable to pay 181 principals. > The pay scale of a principal was same as that of any class 1 IAS. When > government did not accept their proposal, some head master did not allow > to run the colleges in their campus. The laboratory, instruments and > other things were lost. The student made some camp in front of PMG > square. > > On the other hand remuneration of faculty was just RS. 25 per class. > The employee of these school were not getting their remuneration regularly > as budget was meant for 31 schools, government was managing 181 > institutions. The frustrated staffs and students go on strike and met > education ministers and asked to clarify the intention of this type of > education, future of staffs and students employment etc. But government is > yet to settle that long run problem. > > > The problems those were propagated during that project are listed > below. > > Interfarence of political parties. > > Deviation of location, course, and degree plan. > > Violation of own rule. > > The laboratory equipments of some colleges were available in pen and > papers. > > Corruption and nexus between politicians and executive person. > > According to your proposed project who will guaranty that the following > things will not happen: > > * Political interference in selection of lecturers for training, > appointment of lecturers and student selection. > > * Student unrest in different colleges where this course will not offered. > > (In my seven years teaching experience in different colleges of Orissa I > have seen student never watch the consequence of their own activities > and can be the instruments of politicians. Who use them to earn cheap > popularity. The best example is proposed VYASA VIHAR university. > > The intellectual of Balasore proposed this university and run a > token one in Balasore town. The advisory board processed to the paper > work from UGC and the central government. When they required the state > government clearance, the education minister who was from Mayurbhanja, > did not clear that rather he insisted the students of Mayurbhanj to > protest that proposal by holding rally. The students did that. As a > result the ministry set a committee to decide the location of the proposed > university. The committee recommended Baripada is the proper place for > proposed university. When the people of Balasore asked their > representative to change the spot and bring it in favour of the people > of Balasore. He persuade the committee to review the report but could > not succeed rather unveiled the truth that a person belongs to Mayurbhanja > was in that committee and he has strongly recommended infavour of > Baripada. The student of Balasore went on rally and picketed in front > of the collectorate and stopped train, closed shops of Balasore etc.. > > In both places there were the politicians who created difference between > the intellectuals of these two districts. It is interesting now people of > Bhadrak are claiming that university to be established in their > district. It is true that claim of all these three districts are genuine in > the sense of workload, quality education, population strength, backwardness > in professional institutions and availability of intellectuals. The real > requirement is one university in each district. But government is not > ready to open and politicians are preserving unrest in the name of > development of state. > > Neither co-ordinating committee member nor the interested intellectual > thought their effort will deliver this type of unpleasant situation.) > > * Like the change of location of vocational training centers the > location of proposed B.sc.(Comp. Sc. Hon's) may change. > > > One should go through the history before taking any decision. The > security arrangement should be made before investment. > > -laxminarayan > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, C Baral wrote: > > > > > Thankyou Laxminarayan babu for your perspective. > > Your email points out many of the practical issues that > > needs to be tackled. > > > > I will give my perspective to some of the questions > > you pointed out. > > > > Chitta > > > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 10 23:22:37 1997 > > > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:29:04 -0500 (CDT) > > > From: Laxminarayan - Das > > > Status: RO > > > > > > Tapan babu, > > > > > > The proposal is quite good but its implementation in this stage is not > > > fruitful. The practical problems of its implementation are discussed in > > > the last part of this mail. > > > > > > I do not believe only opening the Computer Science(Hon's) subject in > > > Degree colleges of Orissa is a solution to the spread of computer > > > education in the state. The following problems should be eradicated > > > before providing this this type of education. > > > > > > Each year more than 500 MCA, 400 B.E.(Comp.Sc.), 800 PGDCA, 1000 > > > DCA, and 5000 certificate course degree/diploma holders are coming out > > > from the different institutes of Orissa. > > > > I am sure the number coming out of just from the city > > of Bangalore, or Hyderabad is much much more. > > > > According to NASSCOM (National Software someting -- Its chairman is Dewang Mehta) > > ``Companies have projected a demand for appx 41,000 software professionsal > > each year between 1996 to 1998. With some 55,000 (total) new IT > > professionals entering the workforce during this period, the job market > > will remain tight.'' > > > > > > These out puts are from seven degree engineering colleges, P. G. > > > Departments of four universities, three autonomous colleges, four > > > engineering schools, six IGNOU study centers, dozen of state government > > > ITI's, and more than four dozen private institutions of Orissa. Besides > > > these there are other Oriya computer professionals coming from out side > > > Orissa. > > > > > > Concerning the employment, less than 8% of total MCA and BE degree holders > > > are getting opportunity to serve in abroad or multinational companies. > > > Among the remaining persons 25% are getting chance to join in leading > > > national companies, and other 30% are forced to get employment in jobs > > > with less salary. This ultimately block the job opportunity of PGDCA and > > > DCA degree holders. > > > > > > Most of teh PGDCA and DCA come out of the private institutions like NIIT > > etc. Because of no regulations, their teaching, examination, > > everything is questionable. From my point of view they are just making money > > and giving very little in return. > > At least the B.Sc (Hons) exams will be legitimate. > > > > > > > > > > Undoubtly the institutions of Orissa are not legging behind in the > > > quantitative production of computer man power in comparison to other > > > > I would not count the PGDCA and DCA from the private institutions. > > > > > states of India. The real problem is in quality. > > > > Just cpompare with cities like Hyderabad and Pune (not even Bangalore). > > > > But you are very right about quality and this must be > > seriously looked at. > > > > > > The Oriya students those are not reading in leading national institutes > > > are not less skilled in comparison to their counter part. The problem is > > > in our lack of recourses. For example any of our state computer > > > institutions has no e-mail facilities. The journal, periodical, and > > > updated computer software are dream to our students. > > > > > > I agree. > > But, as I said in my previous mail yesterday, I would not > > wait for the quality to improve before > > providing opportunity to a larger segment of population. > > > > Moreover, as I have learnt in the US, competition creates > > quality. When the Bsc (Hons) programs are in place, > > ORissa Engg College will have no choice but to improve its quality. > > > > > > While I was serving in OEC, I saw my colleagues (Computer Science > > > faculties) read some computer magazines in turns and the turn of a > > > student comes after a year or more. OEC graduates 90 computer engineers in > > > each year. The 60% students got employment in private and Government > > > enterprises, national, multinational companies and rest are unemployed. > > > The employed students had never got facilities to read IEE journals > > > during their student career. OEC has largest computer laboratory in > > > comparison to the other institutions of our state. But its standard is > > > not better than any private engineering colleges of other states. Imagine > > > the situation of state government computer institutions. Where the > > > approval letter of window 95 installation comes from upper level after > > > the availability of window 97 in market. > > > > State institutions will have their problems, and we need to > > find ways to solve them. But, again, we can not just stop > > and not provide opportunities to others. > > (As an analogy, should the Orissa govt just focuss > > on Utkal, Berhampur and Sambalpur univ and make their programs great > > before opeining PG programs at Fakirmohan. No, I think > > they did the right thing by opening PG programs in many > > colleges like Fakirmohan College. > > As you mention later, FM has some good faculty in their PG Maths.) > > I completely agree about improving quality, but not > > by freezing the current availability. > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1991 & 1992 UGC provided computer training to the lecturers of > > > mathematics/physics in both state government and UGC added colleges > > > of Orissa. There are 45 UGC full added colleges of Orissa. The Academic > > > Staff College of Utkal University, P. G. Department of Mathematics, > > > Berhampur University, and School of Mathematical Sciences of Sambalpur > > > University trained 90% personnel of these colleges. Than UGC sent some > > > PC's to both Govt. and UGC full added colleges. Two or three colleges > > > offered a computer course to their +2 Sc. students. The remaining > > > colleges which are not providing P. G. Mathematics or Physics kept > > > their PC's in college Go-down. While I was a lecturer in A.B. College > > > Basudevpur(Bhadrak) I once tried to conduct practical classes of > > > Mathematic Hon's students (Now-a- days there is hundred marks computer > > > theory and 100 marks practicals are offering to Math. Hon's students) > > > using these computers. These were simple cabinet. I think either some > > > hard wares were removed or the system was not working due to my fault as > > > I have not any knowledge about hard ware. College did not want to spend > > > for the service. > > > > > > Orissa Mathematical Society proposed +2 council to introduce some basic > > > mathematics for computation in +2 Mathematics. Council approved that and > > > the topics like bianary number system, bianary arithmetic, basic formulas > > > on recursion, switching function and logic circuit, Boolean Algebra, etc > > > were added to the former mathematics syllabus. It was in 1992-1994. But > > > the many lecturers (most of them had already trained in Computing > > > sponsored by UGC) objected as these are difficult to teach. Some colleges > > > had already covered that course, but due to pressure from those > > > lecturers the questions were not asked from those topics. > > > > > > > > > > As you earlier mentioned to me the training was done for 6 months, > > with no exams and questionable instructors. > > We should learn from this and make the training process better, > > not stop training altogether. > > Based on your comments, I have suggested very strong training > > guidelines. Your additional comments on them are welcome. > > > > > > > > This proposal has some good impact as many meritorious students those > > > who are either deprived from engineering study (As number of science > > > students are increasing day by day and number of seats in > > > engineering colleges are not increasing) or interested to read > > > literature and humanity can extend there skill by reading this subject. > > > > > > This subject will prosper only in the collges belongs to urban areas > > > and the collges situated in rural and semi urban areas can not able to > > > improve their standard as there are still communication problem in our > > > state. For example if a computer farm, located in Bhubaneswar sends some > > > software or news letter to some UGC full added colleges of Sambalpur or > > > Sundargarh it will go through West Bengal, Bihar than Orissa. > > > > > > Unless some network connection between the leading colleges are not > > > made it has no impact in mass. > > > > > > > You are right about the network. > > I have stressed about it in the proposal. > > But, there is also another point. > > The vast cost of networking is justifiable when it > > benefits large number of people i.e. if it can be > > connected to large number of colleges/institutions. > > More simply, suppose network is available at point A and not at B. > > If only 5 instituiytions at B need to be networking the cost > > per institution is much more than if say 30 institutions in point > > B are to be networked. This is because the cost of connecting > > A to B will almost remain same and the cost of connecting > > from B to an institution is comparatively much less. > > > > > In my opinion Government or the Organization who is planing to lunch > > > this programme should not concentrate the scopes in cities only. Most > > > of the B. Sc. students, staying in cities, are getting opportunity in > > > computer training either from private institutions or from study centers > > > of IGNOU or some state Government institutions like OCAC or OUAT. If > > > these courses will be offered only in city colleges, it will again > > > crowded these colleges and situation of other colleges will not develop. > > > > > > > > The steps will be to get the B.Sc program approved by the Universities. > > Then the govt probably will start at a few colleges at first. > > But many private colleges can pick it up on their own. > > I sincerely hope the govt has an ultimate goal of having such > > programs in all govt colleges where there is already > > B.Sc Hons in Physics and Maths within say 5 years. > > > > > > > > > In fact all leading colleges are not able to provide books, > > > journal and softwares to there students. So the primary task is to > > > building of infrastructure that is to make a network for knowledge sharing. > > > This is only possible by (at least) providing e-mail facility to all leading > > > colleges. In this way they can share journals, reference books > > > and advance software > > > > > > > > > > No disagreement here. > > > > > > Regarding your thought the B. Sc.(Comp. Hon's) in F.M.College can be opened > > > in a less cost than BJB college. Because F.M. collge is running Math. > > > and Physics Post Graduation courses. The faculty of this college will > > > need some special training to teach this course. Dr. Rath (who did his Ph.D. > > > from IIT Kharag pur), Dr.Purna Nayak, etc. are now teaching > > > FORTRAN programming and theory of Computations in P.G.Mathematics. > > > > > > Without developing infrastructure like network connection, > > > library, computing facility, this project will not full fill > > > its mission; rather it will create a number of unquallified > > > persons. > > > > > > > > No disagreement here, except that the B.Sc hons exam being > > a legitaimite exam will produce many qualified persons too. > > > > > > Thanks again for your comments. > > > > > > cheers > > Chitta > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Tapan Padhi wrote: > > > > > > > I feel Chitta's idea is quite practical. I was wondering if some other > > > > ornetters/ OSA memebers can come forward to implement his idea in > > > > establishing B.Sc( Hons) department at F.M. College, Balasore . > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tapan > > > > > > > > Tapan Padhi, > > > > DBA, FEF Information Systems, > > > > Lincoln, NE-68505 > > > > Ph # 402-479-6905 > > > > Fax # 402-79-6658 > > > > > > > > >>> C Baral 07/09/97 03:49pm >>> > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > I really want it to be avaialable in at least > > > > one college in each district, not just in 3-4 > > > > places. (I want BBSR to be a good city, but not > > > > just BBSR.) > > > > > > > > It would be great if you could also talk to other > > > > Oriyas who may be sympathetic to F.M college. > > > > > > > > Thanks again. > > > > Chitta > > > > > > > > > > > with thanks > > > -laxminarayan > > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > > > > > > Visiting Scientist > > > Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University > > > E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 > > > Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. > > > College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. > > > Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Dr. Laxminarayan Das) > > Visiting Scientist > Deptt. of Comp. Sc., Texas A & M University > E-mail: lndas@cs.tamu.edu > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 301 H.R. Bright Building, Room No. 315D Apartment # 603 > Texas A & M University 401 Stasnaey St. > College Station, Texas 77843, U.S.A. College Station,TX 77840 U.S.A. > Phone : (409)845-0652 Phone: (409)691-8159 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Mon Jul 14 23:55:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07363; Mon, 14 Jul 97 23:55:41 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id XAA06165 for ornet-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA06160 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA29522 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:47:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:47:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707150347.WAA29522@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com> Received: from hou-tx47-19.ix.netcom.com(207.221.66.83) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029486; Mon Jul 14 22:47:03 1997 From: uri1@IX.NETCOM.COM (Upendra Sahu) Subject: Computer education To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO This mail is in reference to the discussion on computer education in B.Sc level in Orissa.. I think it is a very good idea. Two years ago, we initiated a programme called "SCOPE - School Computerization Programme Everywhere" with the help of the Department of Education, Govt. of Orissa. This is an experimental program whereby selected high schools will be provided with computers to teach the prospective students on the basics of computers and applications. This programme has been limping since its inception with lot of politics and bureaucracies.. which is quite obvious. However, many officials have been very supportive and committed. At that point we also wanted to initiate such a program in leading colleges in the B. Sc. levels to build the continuum from the schools to the MCA programs. I believe, if the colleges can start such a program at Plus 2 and B.Sc level, this will be a great help to the students in Orissa. Let us not worry about jobs. Once the supply is there, the demand will automatically be created within the state. The future generation will be well equipped for the changes they might have to face in the 21st century. However, if we have to initiate such a program, let us concentrate on all over Orissa, not in selective colleges in a particular region. I whole heartedly support such initiative. Dr. Baral, please let me know if you need any assistance. Upendra Sahu Houston From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Tue Jul 15 09:27:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22360; Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:27:19 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id JAA17370 for ornet-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com (hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com [204.160.249.1]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17350 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707151311.JAA17350@cs.columbia.edu> Received: by hclind.hclc-ggn.hcla.com (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA084742422; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:43:42 +0530 From: Gyanendra Kumar Patra Subject: RE: B.Sc.(Hons) course in Computer Application To: purnam@SOFTTHOUGHT.COM (Purna Mishra) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:43:42 IST Cc: ornet@cs.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <33C56D7D.257675D7@softthought.com>; from "Purna Mishra" at Jul 10, 97 6:17 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 112.2] Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO This is really a great concern to ensure the quality. There is no doubt that it is very essentila an d an integral part of the life cycle. But without having anything how do you think that we can ensure the quality on nothing. Let the awareness be created first. Then we can talk of quality. The palce like BBSR is still struggling with the corrupt politicians to find aplace in the softawre map. This is a bare fact that it can only be done by private companies who can stay away from the local politics. and this can be done by teh people who like to get the benefit out of that. so NRIs are the only options for thsi. they canm start something with the help of the IT professionals inside or outside India. Thanks and regards, Gyana. > > I do not want to throw cold waters on the effort to submit a proposal to > open B.Sc. (Hons.) course > work in Computer Application. In this context, I have heard from people > who want to make Orissa the > Silicon state, flooded the state with software people, etc. This is a > very honorable effort. > > I do not know how many of you have taken time to visit the institutes > that offer M.C.A. course work in Orissa, met the faculties, and check > the infrastructure. For example, Utkal University has a M.C.A. program > for last > couple of years with very little infrastructure to carry out instruction > and with questionably qualified faculties. They just hired a reader > from Burla to head the faculty. > > What Orissa will achieve by producing questionably qualified graduates? > In the last Indian Science Congress meeting the speakers complained > about the quality of the Indian researchers and Ph.Ds. > > I still remember the nightmare I went thru when the Utkal University > introduced set theory in I.Sc. curriculum. The faculty at Ravenshaw > college were totally unprepared to teach. Now they teach set theory to > the 8th. grade students. > > I have a couple of questions I will like to get answers: > > 1. How will you ensure that properly qualified faculty will be available > to carry out the teaching? > 2. What will be the minimum lab facility? > 3. How can you restrict the course to only one college in a district? > Orissa has now 28 districts. How can you deny a private college from > establishing this course work? > > I do not think what Orissa needs is quantity. What Orissa needs is > quality. A group of qualified professional. For example, compare the > contribution of Israel vs. India. > > Orissa is a relatively peaceful state with fairly low cost of living. > What Orissa needs is a few IT industries that will attract qualified IT > professionals from all over India. It is fairly costly to run business > at Banglore and the lack of adequate power and water makes it tougher. > Lately a few of the software companies are migrating from Banglore to > Madras and Hyderabad. Even with a late start, Calcutta has attracted > several IT companies. > > I hope someday some of the Oriya NRIs will start successful IT ventures > in Orissa. > > > > > > From chitta Tue Jul 15 10:27:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27743; Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:27:07 MDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:27:06 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707151627.AA27743@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help Cc: chitta Status: RO When the Orissa delegation was in the US, they had a proposal of establishing an Indian Institute of Information Technology at Bhubaneswar. The basic goal of the proposal was to establish a QUALITY Information Tech institute at BBSR, with the help of Orissa govt, the central govt and software companies. Yesterday, I was pointed to (by Purna Mohanty) an article on Silicon India (http://www.siliconindia.com) about a similar proposal for Hyderabad. The news item says: Tata IBM signs deal to set up computer school Tata IBM Ltd. the 50:50 joint venture of the Tatas and IBM Corporation, has signed an agreement with the Andhra Pradesh Government to set up the IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing which would be a part of the proposed Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) at Hyderabad. The agreement was signed by the Tata IBM Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Ravi Marwah, and the Secretary, Department of Information Technology, Government of Andhra Pradesh, Mr. R. Chandrasekhar, in the presence of the State Chief Minister, Mr. N. Chandrababu Naidu, and the IBM Asia Pacific President, Mr. C. Timpson. The Executive Director of NASSCOM, Mr. Dewang Mehta, was also present at the occasion. Tata IBM has also entered into an MoU with AP Technology Services Ltd. (APTSL) for forging a strategic partnership in the context of promoting the use of information technology in the State. Tata IBM and APTSL would also explore the possibility of setting up global campus facilities using Internet technology by positioning digitized educational material on the Internet / intranet. The IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing, the first corporate school to come up under IIIT, would provide technological and /or consulting support to organizations seeking to implement enterprise-wide computing solutions. There would be two modern computer laboratories and a library. IBM would appoint the teaching faculty and equip the school with IBM S/390 mainframe server, RISC/UNIX server and personal computers. While the State Government would provide the land and buildings to the Institute, Tata IBM would furnish the interiors and classrooms to meet the international standards and would provide teaching aids. The school is estimated to involve a capital expenditure of over Rs. 50 million and would have faculty from abroad. As per the agreement the school would commence classes within 156 days. It would have an annual intake of approximately 750 students. The school would offer credit courses in information technology to under-graduate, graduate and post-graduate students of IIT. The courses would vary in duration and cover technology, products, systems, architecture, management etc. Similarly, major IT companies are expected to set up schools in their areas of core competence. These schools would be a part of IIIT and would contribute to the institute in terms of resources, faculty etc. Apart from setting up schools, companies can also participate by way of sponsorship of chairs, scholarships, research programs etc. IIIT was conceived as an industry-driven, industry-financed and industry-managed institution. It would offer both long-term and short-term courses in the area of information technology. I urge ornetters to show their support to the OSEDC proposal to set of an IIIT at Bhubaneswar and write to (or convey their support to) the higher-ups (Chief minister, Chief Secretary etc.) in Orissa about going all out for its implementation asap. Otherwise we will loose out in getting the next Indian Institutes, which will be in Information Tech. In the past, for whatever reasons, we have lost out, because of which we do not have any Indian Institutes or Central Universities in Orissa. (As a comparison, WB has IIM, IIT, and a central univ in Bishwa Vharati Univ; AP has U of Hyderabad, a central Univ, Karnataka has IISc and IIM, TN has IIT etc.) best regards Chitta (ps -- All your comments/discussion/support on the B.Sc (Hons) idea is appreciated. I will be fianlizing that proposal soon and sending it to Orissa govt and universities in Orissa. As I mentioned earlier, we need both the quality -- IIIT will do that and quantity -- B.Sc (Hons) will do that.) (pps -- You may fax your support letter to MD, OSEDC at 501387 or to MD IPICOL at 502566 ) From owner-kits Tue Jul 15 10:37:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00101; Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:37:38 MDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:37:31 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707151637.AA29995@cs.utep.edu> To: kits@cs.utep.edu Subject: News item of Concern -- we need to act Sender: owner-kits Precedence: bulk Status: RO >From chitta Tue Jul 15 10:27:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27743; Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:27:07 MDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:27:06 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707151627.AA27743@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help Cc: chitta Status: R When the Orissa delegation was in the US, they had a proposal of establishing an Indian Institute of Information Technology at Bhubaneswar. The basic goal of the proposal was to establish a QUALITY Information Tech institute at BBSR, with the help of Orissa govt, the central govt and software companies. Yesterday, I was pointed to (by Purna Mohanty) an article on Silicon India (http://www.siliconindia.com) about a similar proposal for Hyderabad. The news item says: Tata IBM signs deal to set up computer school Tata IBM Ltd. the 50:50 joint venture of the Tatas and IBM Corporation, has signed an agreement with the Andhra Pradesh Government to set up the IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing which would be a part of the proposed Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) at Hyderabad. The agreement was signed by the Tata IBM Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Ravi Marwah, and the Secretary, Department of Information Technology, Government of Andhra Pradesh, Mr. R. Chandrasekhar, in the presence of the State Chief Minister, Mr. N. Chandrababu Naidu, and the IBM Asia Pacific President, Mr. C. Timpson. The Executive Director of NASSCOM, Mr. Dewang Mehta, was also present at the occasion. Tata IBM has also entered into an MoU with AP Technology Services Ltd. (APTSL) for forging a strategic partnership in the context of promoting the use of information technology in the State. Tata IBM and APTSL would also explore the possibility of setting up global campus facilities using Internet technology by positioning digitized educational material on the Internet / intranet. The IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing, the first corporate school to come up under IIIT, would provide technological and /or consulting support to organizations seeking to implement enterprise-wide computing solutions. There would be two modern computer laboratories and a library. IBM would appoint the teaching faculty and equip the school with IBM S/390 mainframe server, RISC/UNIX server and personal computers. While the State Government would provide the land and buildings to the Institute, Tata IBM would furnish the interiors and classrooms to meet the international standards and would provide teaching aids. The school is estimated to involve a capital expenditure of over Rs. 50 million and would have faculty from abroad. As per the agreement the school would commence classes within 156 days. It would have an annual intake of approximately 750 students. The school would offer credit courses in information technology to under-graduate, graduate and post-graduate students of IIT. The courses would vary in duration and cover technology, products, systems, architecture, management etc. Similarly, major IT companies are expected to set up schools in their areas of core competence. These schools would be a part of IIIT and would contribute to the institute in terms of resources, faculty etc. Apart from setting up schools, companies can also participate by way of sponsorship of chairs, scholarships, research programs etc. IIIT was conceived as an industry-driven, industry-financed and industry-managed institution. It would offer both long-term and short-term courses in the area of information technology. I urge ornetters to show their support to the OSEDC proposal to set of an IIIT at Bhubaneswar and write to (or convey their support to) the higher-ups (Chief minister, Chief Secretary etc.) in Orissa about going all out for its implementation asap. Otherwise we will loose out in getting the next Indian Institutes, which will be in Information Tech. In the past, for whatever reasons, we have lost out, because of which we do not have any Indian Institutes or Central Universities in Orissa. (As a comparison, WB has IIM, IIT, and a central univ in Bishwa Vharati Univ; AP has U of Hyderabad, a central Univ, Karnataka has IISc and IIM, TN has IIT etc.) best regards Chitta (ps -- All your comments/discussion/support on the B.Sc (Hons) idea is appreciated. I will be fianlizing that proposal soon and sending it to Orissa govt and universities in Orissa. As I mentioned earlier, we need both the quality -- IIIT will do that and quantity -- B.Sc (Hons) will do that.) (pps -- You may fax your support letter to MD, OSEDC at 501387 or to MD IPICOL at 502566 ) From chitta Tue Jul 15 10:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from surya.cs.utep.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00295; Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:51:49 MDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 10:51:49 MDT From: chitta (C Baral) Message-Id: <9707151651.AA00295@cs.utep.edu> To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu Subject: We better act fast (another news item from Silicon India) Cc: chitta Status: RO Tanitec Goal is Creating 'Intelligent State' The Tamil Nadu Institute of Information Technology (Tanitec),a project which was announced in the 1997 Tamil Nadu budget, will be active in education as well as research and development. It is also expected to play a catalytic role in making Tamil Nadu ' an intelligent state.' The committee headed by Mr. N. Vittal, former secretary, Department of Electronics (DoE), which was set up to prepare a blue print for the project, recently submitted its recommendations to the Chief Minister. The institution will have a high degree of autonomy since it is likely allocated Rs 100 million for the project in his Budget speech. The committee has recommended starting the B.Sc. (Information Science) course by June, 1998 and B.Tech. course by June 1999. The institute is likely to be located in the Anna University premises. Chitta (ps -- I better send the B.Sc (Hons) proposal quickly, and we better have this offered in multiple places.) From iedso@rocketmail.com Tue Jul 15 20:40:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: from send1.rocketmail.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25098; Tue, 15 Jul 97 20:40:54 MDT Message-Id: <19970716024010.26920.rocketmail@send1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [147.145.40.41] by attach1; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:40:10 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:40:10 -0700 (PDT) From: invest orissa Subject: BSc Comp Sc To: chitta@cs.utep.edu, manas , sunil , somdutt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO Hi: I spoke to Chitta Bhai yesterday. He is going to do the following: He is preparing a careful letter for Gates of microsoft asking to invest in manpower development in Orissa. We never know, he may like his letter.... Before that, I am going to ask GS Mishra to send us all literature in the electronic form so that we can put this in our WWW easily. So when Gates receives our email, he can open to see our exciting WWW. I think it is a GOOD IDEA to work towards this. Thanks, Purna _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com From manas@cassie.SUGAR-land.wireline.slb.com Tue Jul 15 20:46:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: from pop1.sugar-land.omnes.net by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25351; Tue, 15 Jul 97 20:46:06 MDT Received: from SUGAR-land.wireline.slb.com ([163.185.25.2]) by pop1.sugar-land.omnes.net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-12185) with SMTP id AAA29417; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:38:59 -0500 Received: from hdss04.houston.wireline.slb.com by SUGAR-land.wireline.slb.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA06117; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:45:47 -0500 Received: by hdss04.houston.wireline.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA00947; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:45:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:45:45 -0500 From: manas@cassie.SUGAR-land.wireline.slb.com ( Manas Pattanaik ) Message-Id: <199707160245.VAA00947@hdss04.houston.wireline.slb.com> To: chitta@cs.utep.edu, manas@cassie.SUGAR-land.wireline.slb.com, sabat@aspectdv.com, SBEHURA@us.oracle.com, iedso@rocketmail.com Subject: Re: BSc Comp Sc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: 8LxZmzo1BPNbdks8ntnN+w== Status: RO That is a good idea. Writing to Gates, I hope is a measure matching the Tata-IBM proposal ?? In any case we need the IEDSO/Business Orissa website pretty soon as the internet information hub. Let us go for it by starting from the current Invest Orissa Web site. Manas > From iedso@rocketmail.com Tue Jul 15 21:41 CDT 1997 > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:40:10 -0700 (PDT) > From: invest orissa > Subject: BSc Comp Sc > To: chitta@cs.utep.edu, manas , sunil , somdutt > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > > > Hi: > > I spoke to Chitta Bhai yesterday. > He is going to do the following: > > He is preparing a careful letter for Gates of microsoft > asking to invest in manpower development in Orissa. > We never know, he may like his letter.... > Before that, I am going to ask GS Mishra to send us > all literature in the electronic form so that we can > put this in our WWW easily. So when Gates receives our email, > he can open to see our exciting WWW. I think it is a GOOD IDEA > to work towards this. > > Thanks, > Purna > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com > From ornet-owner@cse.cuhk.edu.hk Thu Jul 17 19:11:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cse.cuhk.edu.hk by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19751; Thu, 17 Jul 97 19:11:01 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cse.cuhk.edu.hk (8.8.5/8.6.6) id SAA17164 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from diamond.waii.com (firewall-user@diamond.waii.com [198.3.192.201]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA17159 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by diamond.waii.com id RAA13427; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:28:37 -0500 sender surath.rath@waii.com for Received: from mail.wg.waii.com(137.144.128.17) by diamond.waii.com via smap (3.2) id xma013084; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:23:58 -0500 Received: from wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (wg1smtp.wg.waii.com [137.144.128.28]) by mail1.wg.waii.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA49176 for <@mail.wg.waii.com:ornet@cs.columbia.edu>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:23:57 -0500 Received: by wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.17/1.1) id AA0276; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:09:24 -0700 Message-Id: <9707180009.AA0276@wg1smtp.wg.waii.com> Received: by WG1 (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 03CA9100153E7998862564D70049A521; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:09:19 EDT To: ornet From: Surath Rath/WALS/WAII Date: 17 Jul 97 8:42:15 EDT Subject: Let us show our support! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear members, As Dr. Sankar Acharya points out, Govt. of Orissa is seriously thinking about setting up an institute of national importance in Bhubaneswar. I believe, it is the right time to show our support for the cause. It might act as a catalyst. Please do whatever is convenient for you. You may directly fax your support letter as suggested by Dr. Acharya. I am faxing my letter to Dr. Baral by this Friday. The fax numbers are as follows: 1. Dr. Baral - 915-7475030 2. Chief secretary of Orissa - (011)91 674 400244 We might think that nothing happens by just sending some letters. At least we will have some ground to show to the Govt. of Orissa that we are all interested in their proposal. Besides, we will have some basis to follow up later. So, let us all show our support. Surath Rath. From Surath.Rath@waii.com Fri Jul 18 08:06:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: from diamond.waii.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17187; Fri, 18 Jul 97 08:06:28 MDT From: Surath.Rath@waii.com Received: by diamond.waii.com id JAA27429; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:06:22 -0500 sender Surath.Rath@waii.com for Received: from mail.wg.waii.com(137.144.128.17) by diamond.waii.com via smap (3.2) id xma027141; Fri, 18 Jul 97 08:53:06 -0500 Received: from gw1.wg.waii.com (gw1.wg.waii.com [137.144.128.85]) by mail1.wg.waii.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA60346 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:53:05 -0500 Received: by gw1.wg.waii.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 862564D8.004D0200 ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:01:07 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: WG1 To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Message-Id: <862564D8.004B22F2.00@gw1.wg.waii.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:53:56 -0500 Subject: Re: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Chitta, I am faxing my letter to the chief secretary to you. Please send it along with yours. I am glad that you have set up a list server. I am subscribing to this. Following our first move and Govt. of Orissa's positive nod I have the following suggestions: 1. Let the Govt. tell us what kind of help they need from us. 2. We will take a list of all the companies that signed MOUs with the Govt. I have asked Somodutta to give me a brochure. Once the proposal comes to some stage of progress, we will have to contact the CEO's of such companies for financial help. I think financial consideration will play a major role. Look at what happened to Kalinga Hospital. It just dragged on and on. 3. It is very important to get a collaboration with some university (if we can). 4. Pressurize Govt. of Orissa to garner support of the companies operating in Orissa. Surath. chitta@cs.utep.edu on 07/17/97 05:42:53 PM To: surath.rath@waii.com cc: (bcc: Surath Rath/WALS/WAII) Subject: Re: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help I am also very excited and feel that we can play an important role. I am not sure what exactly the govt needs from us. When I asked this to the OSEDC MD where the proposal oroginated, he mentioned writing teh CM and the chief secy about our support and trying for a collaboration with an US university. As you are aware we are already doing both. Additionally, your idea of contacting software houses here is very good. Some of us were discussing yesterday to write to Bill Gates. We will be writing him as soon as we have a web site with a lot of info about Orissa business climate. This will take us a couple of weeks. It would be great if you could help us in contacting some additional software houses. Do you have any particular company in mind. You may subscribe to kits@cs.utep.edu by sending an email to majordomo@cs.utep.edu with the content (not subject) subscribe kits This mailing list consist of a small group of people who are actively interested in this and similar endeavours. Chitta From iedso@rocketmail.com Fri Jul 18 10:42:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: from send2.rocketmail.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28281; Fri, 18 Jul 97 10:42:46 MDT Message-Id: <19970718164005.21870.rocketmail@send2.rocketmail.com> Received: from [147.145.40.41] by web1; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:40:05 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:40:05 -0700 (PDT) From: invest orissa Subject: Fax to GS Mishra To: chitta , somdutt , manas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO Hi Chitta Bhai: I have sent a fax to GS Mishra with cc to Sudhansu Mishra and SIdharth Pradhan. One of the points is to send us the electronic version of the materials so that we can putit in the WEB. Please start writing your letter to G. If you want any info, you can call up Shelley at home. Thanks, Purna _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Fri Jul 18 20:52:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03258; Fri, 18 Jul 97 20:52:38 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id UAA28040 for ornet-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tigger.cc.uic.edu (TIGGER.CC.UIC.EDU [128.248.100.51]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28035 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup.uiuc.edu (ts1a-33.cu-online.com [206.114.213.33]) by tigger.cc.uic.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA224550; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:14:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:12:15 -0500 () From: "Dr. Sankar Acharya" To: Ornet@cs.columbia.edu, Nitya S Mohapatra Cc: sacharya@uic.edu Subject: Re: Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-X-Sender: sacharya@tigger.cc.uic.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear Ornetter: I received a suggestion (from Nitya Babu) to draft a letter to the Orissa State Chief Secretary for an IIIT in Bhubaneswar. I think different letters stressing the same substantive issue will likely have a greater collective impact than a series of identical letters. For reference, however, I am annexing to this e-mail a copy of the letter that I just faxed to Mr. Sudhansu Bhusan Mishra at 011 91 674 400244. [It took me 3.5 minutes to fax directly from my word processor.] I welcome any interested Ornetter/Oriya to mail/fax a suitable variation of my letter to the Chief Secretary. A suitable variation may be necessary since my letter contains some other issues which I think are important at this point in time. Cordially, Sankar Acharya PS: I am tempted to urge you all to send an e-mail to the two NIC directors, Mr. D.Krishna Rao (dkrao@ori.nic.in, phone 405779) Mr. M. Vinayak Rao (mvr@ori.nic.in, phone 411592), enquiring when the NIC will provide e-mail service in Orissa. This will likely put some pressure on an institution that was created to provide this service, but has not done so yet. ************************************************************************ July 18, 1997 Mr. Sudhansu Bhusan Mishra Chief Secretary, Government of Orissa Bhunaneswar 751001 Dear Mr. Mishra, I am writing this letter to convey my strong support for an Indian Institute of Information Technology at Bhubaneswar and to suggest a comprehensive set of steps that Orissa must undertake at this defining moment to climb the rungs of economic develo pment. While I appreciate the government's initiative to start an IIIT, I must stress that Orissa needs an IIIT of the highest quality that can generate very talented computer software professionals to compete worldwide and engender global business via sate llite communication. Indeed, this is a defining moment for Orissa to push aggressively for creating an image that it is a high-tech haven. This can be achieved only if Orissa has a qualitatively strong IIIT and excellent services linking the existing bu sinesses and major educational institutions to the Internet. The government's current IIIT proposal for large-scale short-term training in information technology depicts the IIIT as an Industrial Training Institute, not an Indian Institute of Technology. You may recall that Orissa never got an IIT because the then politicians did not feel the necessity of donating land for another "ITI," when the proposal for an IIT in Orissa was presented to them. Orissa must have a high-tech IIIT, not a simple training institute, lest the latter will have no credibility in the information technology industry. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that most prominent institutes on computer science in the US are the innovators in the information technology revolution. For example, the origin of graphical world wid e web browsing that has revolutionized the Internet (including electronic commerce) originated at the University of Illinois and the founder of Netscape which produces the web-browsing software co-developed this technology with the faculty during undergra duate course assignments. It seems very important for the government of Orissa to observe that a lot of rigorous classroom instruction on computer science in top US institutions is derived from and feeds into industrial applications. Given that other Indian states are plann ing to open IITs by "collaborating" with business houses like IBM and Microsoft, Orissa can pursue a different, but perhaps more effective, route to such collaboration, for instance, with the University of Illinois for developing programs on computer scie nce/ information technology. This may appear to be more costly to the state at this stage, but in due course of time, this strategy will likely generate much more than the initial cost. Of course, Orissa must push multinational companies poised to extra ct/process minerals in the state to contribute sufficiently to the IIIT. Eventually the central government will participate, but given that India wants to make even the IITs financially independent, it is not critical or necessary to depend on the centra l government. When only a few Indian states are just initiating IIIT proposals, Orissa has a great chance to reach the level of these states if the government undertakes rational preemptive strategies, for instance, by earmarking sufficient land (about 50 acres) a nd allocating some state funds to start the IIIT immediately, while seeking simultaneously the collaboration of a prestigious US institution like the University of Illinois; the Engineering College at the U of I is ranked number 2 in the US by the US News and World Report. If you are interested in such collaboration, please have the blue print of an IIIT ready with land and initial resource allocation approved by the state-government and an intention to collaborate with an institution like the U of I. I f you are visiting the US in September, as some have told me, we could take Orissa's serious desire for collaboration to the Computer Science division at the University of Illinois. I would even suggest that you visit Champaign exclusively for this purpo se. I have some personal friends in the College of Engineering and hence can try to ask for their collaboration, although this cannot be guaranteed to materialize. If you can forward to me the State Government's written commitment for a high quality III T, I will initiate the dialogue here before your arrival. Please keep the initiative on collaboration confidential until we succeed. Orissa must strive to pull itself out of the rut and join quickly the information revolution. Given that Bhubaneswar already has a high quality electronic telephone exchange, the state government should exercise its pressure to harness and improve t he resources on satellite communication and Internet server facility at the Bhubaneswar National Informatics Center. The need for the state's pressure on NIC is important because NIC is unlikely to respond to others. For example, I have not yet received responses to my e-mail delivered on June 30, 1997 to two NIC directors: Mr. D.Krishna Rao (dkrao@ori.nic.in, 405779) Mr. M. Vinayak Rao (mvr@ori.nic.in, 411592). While one can criticize NIC's customer service, the main point is that if NIC's most promin ent customers in Bhubaneswar (the Orissa State Government Secretaries) do not seem to care for their services, they need not respond to others who can do nothing to their prospect at NIC! The overall strategy to develop Orissa will likely work only if the state creates a completely autonomous body, say an Orissa Development Council, with independence from politics and the authority to develop rational economic development strategies f or Orissa. The idea of ODC is similar to those in the states and the Federal Government of the USA. You may have noted the dramatic rate of US economic development since 1992, when the consumer optimism was abysmally low and most people in the US feared that the country would be dominated by the global economy then on. At that time, President Clinton successfully drafted Bob Rubin (a Wall Street financier) as the Economic Czar, Larry Summers (a professor of finance) as the key Treasury policy advisor, a nd drafted Nobel Laureate Joe Stiglitz as an Economist to advise the President. Since then the stock market in the US has almost tripled in value, the deficit has shrunk into a third, the consumer confidence has soared and people have prospered like in n o other period in the past. The ODC must have all the power to present (to the Cabinet/Chief Secretary) completely transparent analyses of the economic impact of setting up new industries in Orissa and be instrumental in developing transparent policies to invite industries to Orissa. The current ad hoc private negotiation with multinationals may, as many fear, result in an international exploitation of valuable mineral resources with very little translating into the State's infrastructure development. Looking forward to hearing from you and with best regards, Sincerely, .==========================================================. | Professor Sankar Acharya | sacharya@uic.edu | | http://credit.fin.uic.edu/ | | | Finance Department (M/C 168) |------------------------| | Unversity of Illnois at Chicago | Office: 2412 UH | | 601 South Morgan Street | Phone: (312) 413 9204 | | Chicago, IL 60607 | FAX: (312) 413 7948 | `==========================================================' On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Nitya S Mohapatra wrote: > > Hello Friends, > Dr. Acharya idea seems to be in a strong proposition vis-a-vis > sending individual letters/fax to the mentioned number. But > the following questions, if answered, would be better: > 1. Address to which the letters can be send -- I guess most > of us are not aware of the Chief Secretary's official address. > 2. Dr. Acharya - if you could formalise a draft of the letter > to be faxed/send to the concerned authorities stating the > facts, it would really be commendable, keeping in view that > most of the ORNETTERS would just fax/send a SIMPLE letter. > > Thanks in advance. > Rgds-> > Nitya S. Mohapatra. > Piscataway, NJ. > > ____________________ Begin Original Message ___________________________ > Date: Thu Jul 17 06:19:14 -0500 1997 > From: internet!tigger.cc.uic.edu!sacharya (Dr. Sankar Acharya) > Subject: Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR > To: internet!cs.columbia.edu!Ornet > Cc: internet!uic.edu!sacharya > Content-Type: Text > Content-Length: 3601 > > ------------------- > > I have already informed the Orissa State Chief Secretary of the > importance of starting an IIIT and feel, if other Oriyas send their letter > independently by fax to 011 91 674 400244, it will likely have a > resonating effect. I feel a packet of collated letters may not have as > strong an effect as a series of independent letters. What is more > critical, though, is to stress that the Institute be of very high quality. > > I will write another letter to the Chief Secretary who is likely > to visit Champaign in September and thus can officially initiate a "secret > (only to Oriyas)" collaborative effort with UIUC. If the Orissa > Government is amenable to the idea of a collaboration, I will open up the > dialogue here. > > Cordially, > > > .==========================================================. > | Professor Sankar Acharya | sacharya@uic.edu | > | http://credit.fin.uic.edu/ | | > | Finance Department (M/C 168) |------------------------| > | Unversity of Illnois at Chicago | Office: 2412 UH | > | 601 South Morgan Street | Phone: (312) 413 9204 | > | Chicago, IL 60607 | FAX: (312) 413 7948 | > `==========================================================' > > > > > From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 17 16:10:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10100; Thu, 17 Jul 97 16:07:20 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id OAA10463 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu (mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.137]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10458 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maau.ma.mt.np.els-gms.att.net (maau.ma.mt.np.els-gms.att.net [199.191.145.134]) by mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA14822 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:20:42 +0000 From: nm@attmail.com (Nitya S Mohapatra) Received: from nm by attmail; Thu Jul 17 18:20:58 GMT 1997 Subject: Re: Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR In-Reply-To: your message of Thu Jul 17 06:19:14 -0500 1997 To: sacharya@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Dr. Sankar Acharya) Cc: Ornet@cs.columbia.edu, sacharya@uic.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Hello Friends, Dr. Acharya idea seems to be in a strong proposition vis-a-vis sending individual letters/fax to the mentioned number. But the following questions, if answered, would be better: 1. Address to which the letters can be send -- I guess most of us are not aware of the Chief Secretary's official address. 2. Dr. Acharya - if you could formalise a draft of the letter to be faxed/send to the concerned authorities stating the facts, it would really be commendable, keeping in view that most of the ORNETTERS would just fax/send a SIMPLE letter. Thanks in advance. Rgds-> Nitya S. Mohapatra. Piscataway, NJ. ____________________ Begin Original Message ___________________________ Date: Thu Jul 17 06:19:14 -0500 1997 From: internet!tigger.cc.uic.edu!sacharya (Dr. Sankar Acharya) Subject: Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR To: internet!cs.columbia.edu!Ornet Cc: internet!uic.edu!sacharya Content-Type: Text Content-Length: 3601 ------------------- I have already informed the Orissa State Chief Secretary of the importance of starting an IIIT and feel, if other Oriyas send their letter independently by fax to 011 91 674 400244, it will likely have a resonating effect. I feel a packet of collated letters may not have as strong an effect as a series of independent letters. What is more critical, though, is to stress that the Institute be of very high quality. I will write another letter to the Chief Secretary who is likely to visit Champaign in September and thus can officially initiate a "secret (only to Oriyas)" collaborative effort with UIUC. If the Orissa Government is amenable to the idea of a collaboration, I will open up the dialogue here. Cordially, .==========================================================. | Professor Sankar Acharya | sacharya@uic.edu | | http://credit.fin.uic.edu/ | | | Finance Department (M/C 168) |------------------------| | Unversity of Illnois at Chicago | Office: 2412 UH | | 601 South Morgan Street | Phone: (312) 413 9204 | | Chicago, IL 60607 | FAX: (312) 413 7948 | `==========================================================' From surath.rath@waii.com Thu Jul 17 16:28:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: from diamond.waii.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13282; Thu, 17 Jul 97 16:28:51 MDT Received: by diamond.waii.com id RAA13455; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:28:49 -0500 sender surath.rath@waii.com for Received: from mail.wg.waii.com(137.144.128.17) by diamond.waii.com via smap (3.2) id xma013082; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:23:45 -0500 Received: from wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (wg1smtp.wg.waii.com [137.144.128.28]) by mail1.wg.waii.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA44008 for <@mail.wg.waii.com:chitta@CS.UTEP.EDU>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:23:44 -0500 Received: by wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.17/1.1) id AA0256; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:08:19 -0700 Message-Id: <9707180008.AA0256@wg1smtp.wg.waii.com> Received: by WG1 (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 62CB0A68E238C282862564D7004B5769; Thu, 17 Jul 97 17:08:14 EDT To: chitta From: Surath Rath/WALS/WAII Date: 17 Jul 97 8:51:41 EDT Subject: Re: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Status: RO Dear Chitta, I am really excited to learn that Orissa Govt. is trying to set up an institute of National importance in Bhubaneswar. I will send a letter of support to you addressed to the Chief secreatry. Please forward all the letters appropriately. Besides, I have been thinking if we can open up a dialog with the Govt. Other than sending our letters how can we help the Govt.? 1. We can participate with the Govt. in any constructive discussion. 2. Once the proposal comes to some stage of action, we can contact several software corporate in US to provide support. After all they have signed MOUs for setting up operations in Orissa. Let me know your thoughts. Surath. From prasant@iastate.edu Mon Jul 21 07:31:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: from pv0559.vincent.iastate.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11303; Mon, 21 Jul 97 07:31:51 MDT Received: by pv0559.vincent.iastate.edu with SMTP with sendmail-5.65 id ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:31:46 -0500 Message-Id: <9707211331.AA21896@pv0559.vincent.iastate.edu> To: chitta@cs.utep.edu (C Baral) Subject: Re: Bsc hons proposal in Latex In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:09:08 MDT." <9707192209.AA29798@cs.utep.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:31:44 CDT From: Prasant Mohapatra Status: RO The proposal is very well-written and well thought out. I am marking a few suggestions. % \section{THE MAIN IDEA} % The {\em main idea} is to % develop B.Sc (Hons) Computer Science programs % (perhaps in stages as dictated by the financial limitations of the % state) at colleges all over Orissa where there are B.Sc (Hons) % in Mathematics and/or Physics programs with {\em future goals} to % develop B.Com (Hons) in Information Systems programs across Orissa. % % \st % The modus operandi would be to limit costs by using existing % infrastructure, such as buildings, class rooms, etc % to the largest extent possible, % with additional cost involved only in % {\em training Maths/Physics lecturers in Computer Science}, % and {\em providing computer access}. I SUGGEST THAT EACH OF THESE INSTITUTION MUST HIRE AT LEAST ONE FACULTY WITH A CS BACKGROUND. I BELIEVE THIS ADDITIONAL COST IS NOT TOO MUCH AND IS VERY BENEFICIAL % \subsection{Ensuring quality of the trained teachers} % The success of this proposal critically depends on % the quality of the students that will graduate with the % B.Sc (Hons) in Computer Science degree. % This in turn critically hinges on how good their teachers % are, and this will depend on how well they are trained. % % \st % The main idea here is that % the selected Mathematics and Physics lecturers % are trained in Bhubaneswar, % Rourkela, Berhampur, Burla, and Sarang where there are existing % institutions with computer science faculty, who will be in % the trainer pool. % (CET, OEC, XIM, Dept of Computer Sc % and Application -- Utkal and OCAC in Bhubaneswar, % REC in Rourkela, NIT in Berhampur, UCE in Burla, % and the Engineering college in Sarang.) % These instructors will be helped by a advisory % board of Computer Sc faculty from reputed institutions % in India and abroad. % {\em Also, in case that well qualified instructors are not % available locally, the government should % hire well qualified trainers from outside. % This investment will pay off in terms of better % trained lecturers which will result in % well qualified graduating students.} SOMEWHERE YOU CAN MENTION THAT WE CAN START THE SCHEME AT 2-4 COLEEGES ON AN EXPERIMENTAL BASIS AND THEN EXPAND IT SLOWLY. THAT MIGHT LEAD TO EASY AND FAST APPROVAL AND ALSO GIVE PEOPLE/STUDENTS TO SINK-IN THE CONCEPT. % To ensure the quality of the trained lecturers, % they will have to pass % examination in each of the courses, % that they will be teaching. (Just attending will not % make them eligible to teach.) Special efforts should be % made to ensure that the exam process is % corruption free so as to ensure the quality. % % \subsection{Facilities} % Initial facilities in terms of computers and softwares % will be provided by the Orissa govt, and later % software companies and well-off alumni or % well wishers (particularly NRIs) will be approached % to donate individual computers (with their name as the domain % name, if they would like that) % or even to set up software labs bearing their names by % donating most computers and softwares in that lab. % Initial physical facilities for the new B.Sc (Hons) % program will be provided by the corresponding college. IT COULD EMPHASIZED HERE THAT THE FUTURE IMPROVEMENT AND MAINTAINANCE OF THE LABS MAY BE DONE THROUGH FUNDRAISING - THIS CONCEPT WHICH IS WIDELY POPULAR IN US UNIVS. IS NOT YET EXPLORED IN INDIA. I AM SURE THE ALUMINI CAN CONTRIBUTE TO MAKE THIS POSSIBLE. % \st % The aim should be to have 1 computer for each five Computer Science % hons students % and 1 computer for each 10 computer science pass students. % (The government may consider charging Rs 5000 per year % for each hons students and Rs 2500 a year for each pass student, % as a computer usage fee, with waivers and/or loans for students from % economically disadvantage background.) AGAIN HERE ALSO SEVERAL SCHOLARSHIPS CAN BE INTRODUCED BY DONORS. (RS. 5000 TRANSLATES TO ABOUT $10 PER MONTH - I AM SURE A LOT OF FOLKS CAN CONTRIBUTE AND NAME THE SCHOLARSHIPS.) % \subsection{Affiliation and authorization issues} % For speedy implementation of this program, the program will % be designed so as not to depend on the Central Govt or the % All India Council of Technical Education. % % \st % The program will stress on the B.Sc (Hons) science aspect % avoiding engineering so as not to require a certification % from the All India Council of Technical education. % % \st % The program will be formally certified from the Universities % in Orissa and classified as a B.Sc (Hons) program. % Since, the program will follow the current pattern % used in other B.Sc (Hons) programs and will not be % proposing any radical idea (except the 4-yr with thesis % option which can be pursued separately at a non-emergency % pace), it should not have problem in getting % approved by the University authorizing bodies. TO MAKE THINGS SIMPLE, FOR NOW I SUGGEST TO ELIMINATE THE THESIS OPTION AND INTRODUCE IT LATER. PUTTING EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME MIGHT OVERWHELM THE BEAUROCRATS. % \section{The training program} % The training program has to be carefully designed with the % main goal being that the training produce competent/qualified % lecturers. (I was told that the 6 months training on Computers that % the Orissa govt has been current providing to % lecturers has not been very effective because of % not so good trainers, no examination for the trainees, % and no evaluation process for the trainers' teaching ability.) I BELIEVE THE TRAINING PART IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND SHOULD BE MAINTAINED AUTONOMOUSLY BY THE ADVISORY BOARD WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE. % \subsection{Training details} % The basic training will be part-time for the first % 3 semester and full-time in the 4th semester. % A suggested training break-up is as follows: % % \begin{itemize} % % \item First Six months: % (A1) Digital Circuits and % (B1) Structured programming (in Pascal). % % \item Second six months: % (A2) Automata and formal languages and \\ % (B2) Data Structures and % algorithms (in C). % % \item Third six months: % (C1) Design and analysis of algorithms and (C2) numerical analysis and\\ % (G) Object oriented programming with Java. % % \item Fourth six months: One of the following combinations. % % \begin{itemize} % % \item % (D1) Databases and (D2) Artificial Intelligence and\\ % ($H_1$) Agents, workflows, and client-server computing using Java. % % \item % (E1) Operating Systems and (E2) Computer Architecture and\\ % ($H_2$) Introduction to networking and distributed systems. % % \item % (F) Compiler theory, system programming, LEX and YACC and\\ % ($H_3$) Graphics and multi-media. % % \end{itemize} I DO NOT FULLT AGREE WITH THE SEQUENCING. I NEED TO THIK A LITTLE. HOWEVER, THIS ISSUE CAN BE RESOLVED LATER. % \section{Advisory Board} % Chita Das, Associate Professor, Pennsylvania State University\\ HE GOT PROMOTED TO FULL PROF. THIS YEAR! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Prasant Mohapatra Assistant Professor 201 Coover Hall Ph: (515) 294-3959 Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering FAX: (515) 294-8432 Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011. prasant@iastate.edu URL: http://www.ee.iastate.edu/~prasant -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Wed Jul 16 15:38:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06571; Wed, 16 Jul 97 15:38:36 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id NAA02754 for ornet-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from diamond.waii.com (firewall-user@diamond.waii.com [198.3.192.201]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA02749 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by diamond.waii.com id MAA09243; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:46:24 -0500 sender surath.rath@waii.com for Received: from mail.wg.waii.com(137.144.128.17) by diamond.waii.com via smap (3.2) id xma008752; Wed, 16 Jul 97 12:27:41 -0500 Received: from wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (wg1smtp.wg.waii.com [137.144.128.28]) by mail1.wg.waii.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12226 for <@mail.wg.waii.com:ornet@cs.columbia.edu>; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:27:29 -0500 Received: by wg1smtp.wg.waii.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.17/1.1) id AA2022; Wed, 16 Jul 97 11:37:41 -0700 Message-Id: <9707161837.AA2022@wg1smtp.wg.waii.com> Received: by WG1 (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 93A5C58F02341DB7862564D5006EBB46; Wed, 16 Jul 97 11:37:34 EDT To: ornet From: Surath Rath/WALS/WAII Date: 15 Jul 97 15:33:29 EDT Subject: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear Members of Ornet, I thank Dr. Baral for bringing to the notice of Ornet members about the very noble proposal by Govt. of Orissa. It is certainly a welcome move by the Govt. I strongly feel, we, residents of Orissa must support the Govt. in its move to set up a school of national importance in bbsr. I urge everyone to bring in constructive suggestions/opinions. As Dr. Baral points out these can be sent to the Govt. I believe Dr. Baral has already taken some initiative in sending a proposal to the Govt. Can all the suggestions regarding IT technology institute in bbsr be forwarded to Dr. Baral which can suitably be put before the Govt.? This may be better than everyone trying to approach the Govt. I have the following suggestions regarding the proposed institute: 1. All of us should show solidarity in support of the Govt.'s proposal. 2. What is the source of funding for the Govt. of Orissa? I belive every national and international companies operating in Orissa can contribute towards fulfilment of the above goal. 3. Govt. of Orissa can seek central Govt. assistance. The proposed institute in BBSR is a national institute after all. Let us show our interest in the Govt. proposal. Surath Rath. ---------------------- Forwarded by Surath Rath/WALS/WAII on 07/15/97 03:07 AM --------------------------- chitta@CS.UTEP.EDU on 07/15/97 11:27:06 AM To: ornet@cs.columbia.edu cc: chitta@CS.UTEP.EDU (bcc: Surath Rath/WALS/WAII) Subject: The proposed Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR may need your help When the Orissa delegation was in the US, they had a proposal of establishing an Indian Institute of Information Technology at Bhubaneswar. The basic goal of the proposal was to establish a QUALITY Information Tech institute at BBSR, with the help of Orissa govt, the central govt and software companies. Yesterday, I was pointed to (by Purna Mohanty) an article on Silicon India (http://www.siliconindia.com) about a similar proposal for Hyderabad. The news item says: Tata IBM signs deal to set up computer school Tata IBM Ltd. the 50:50 joint venture of the Tatas and IBM Corporation, has signed an agreement with the Andhra Pradesh Government to set up the IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing which would be a part of the proposed Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) at Hyderabad. The agreement was signed by the Tata IBM Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Ravi Marwah, and the Secretary, Department of Information Technology, Government of Andhra Pradesh, Mr. R. Chandrasekhar, in the presence of the State Chief Minister, Mr. N. Chandrababu Naidu, and the IBM Asia Pacific President, Mr. C. Timpson. The Executive Director of NASSCOM, Mr. Dewang Mehta, was also present at the occasion. Tata IBM has also entered into an MoU with AP Technology Services Ltd. (APTSL) for forging a strategic partnership in the context of promoting the use of information technology in the State. Tata IBM and APTSL would also explore the possibility of setting up global campus facilities using Internet technology by positioning digitized educational material on the Internet / intranet. The IBM School of Enterprise-wide Computing, the first corporate school to come up under IIIT, would provide technological and /or consulting support to organizations seeking to implement enterprise-wide computing solutions. There would be two modern computer laboratories and a library. IBM would appoint the teaching faculty and equip the school with IBM S/390 mainframe server, RISC/UNIX server and personal computers. While the State Government would provide the land and buildings to the Institute, Tata IBM would furnish the interiors and classrooms to meet the international standards and would provide teaching aids. The school is estimated to involve a capital expenditure of over Rs. 50 million and would have faculty from abroad. As per the agreement the school would commence classes within 156 days. It would have an annual intake of approximately 750 students. The school would offer credit courses in information technology to under-graduate, graduate and post-graduate students of IIT. The courses would vary in duration and cover technology, products, systems, architecture, management etc. Similarly, major IT companies are expected to set up schools in their areas of core competence. These schools would be a part of IIIT and would contribute to the institute in terms of resources, faculty etc. Apart from setting up schools, companies can also participate by way of sponsorship of chairs, scholarships, research programs etc. IIIT was conceived as an industry-driven, industry-financed and industry-managed institution. It would offer both long-term and short-term courses in the area of information technology. I urge ornetters to show their support to the OSEDC proposal to set of an IIIT at Bhubaneswar and write to (or convey their support to) the higher-ups (Chief minister, Chief Secretary etc.) in Orissa about going all out for its implementation asap. Otherwise we will loose out in getting the next Indian Institutes, which will be in Information Tech. In the past, for whatever reasons, we have lost out, because of which we do not have any Indian Institutes or Central Universities in Orissa. (As a comparison, WB has IIM, IIT, and a central univ in Bishwa Vharati Univ; AP has U of Hyderabad, a central Univ, Karnataka has IISc and IIM, TN has IIT etc.) best regards Chitta (ps -- All your comments/discussion/support on the B.Sc (Hons) idea is appreciated. I will be fianlizing that proposal soon and sending it to Orissa govt and universities in Orissa. As I mentioned earlier, we need both the quality -- IIIT will do that and quantity -- B.Sc (Hons) will do that.) (pps -- You may fax your support letter to MD, OSEDC at 501387 or to MD IPICOL at 502566 ) From purna@lsil.com Wed Jul 16 20:37:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lsi.lsil.com by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24035; Wed, 16 Jul 97 20:36:02 MDT Received: from mhost.lsil.com (mhost.lsil.com [147.145.69.84]) by lsi.lsil.com with SMTP id TAA22302 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for ); Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:13:46 -0700 Received: from vp12w115 by mhost.lsil.com id AA16320 (4.1/SMI-4.1 for chitta@cs.utep.edu); Wed, 16 Jul 97 19:13:07 PDT Received: from vp12w115 by vp12w115 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA03187; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:09:58 -0700 Sender: purna@lsil.com Message-Id: <33CD7EF6.23F3@lsil.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:09:58 -0700 From: Purna Mohanty - 6962 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: C Baral Subject: Re: News item of Concern -- we need to act References: <9707151637.AA29995@cs.utep.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Hi Chitta Bhai: Please send me the fax number of SUdhansu Mishra. THanks, Purna -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- | Purna C. Mohanty | Phone: (408) 433-6962 | Storage Applications Engg. | FAX : (408) 433-7461 | LSI Logic Corporation | | 1525 McCarthy Blvd,M/S G-750 | ARISE, AWAKE and STOP NOT till the | Milpitas, CA 95035 | GOAL is reached.-Swami Vivekananda -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Thu Jul 17 01:24:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from cs.columbia.edu by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02585; Thu, 17 Jul 97 01:24:43 MDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) id AAA20502 for ornet-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tigger.cc.uic.edu (TIGGER.CC.UIC.EDU [128.248.100.51]) by cs.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA20497 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boing (ts3a-102.cu-online.com [206.114.213.102]) by tigger.cc.uic.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA73250; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:03:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:00:47 -0500 () From: "Dr. Sankar Acharya" To: Ornet@cs.columbia.edu Cc: sacharya@uic.edu Subject: Indian Inst of Info Tech at BBSR Message-Id: X-X-Sender: sacharya@tigger.cc.uic.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: ornet-owner@cs.columbia.edu Precedence: bulk X-Majordomo-List: ornet from majordomo.cs.columbia.edu Status: RO Dear Friends: The idea of a QUALITATIVELY STRONG center for Information Technology in BBSR is critically important for Orissa to compete with other Indian states and should be pursued as I had mentioned in the introduction to "Oriyascape." The specific OSEDC proposal for an IIIT stipulating to "train" 10000 graduates per year through "6 and 4 month courses" sounds, however, like an Industrial Training Institute (ITI), as opposed to an Indian Institute of Technology. I am sure many of you may be aware of the fact that Orissa lost the opportunity to have an IIT because the then government argued that Orissa already had so many ITI's that the state did not need to sacrifice a lot of land to have another! The state government seems poised to start, almost surely, some IIIT without any prodding from us. After all, it is the government that came up with the initiative. [I learned from Professor Banikanta Mishra of XIM that while he chatted with the OSEDC Chairman/MD and some other friends, the idea of an IIIT surfaced when they discussed the development of Orissa/India. The OSEDC Chairman then drafted a formal proposal circulated in the USA.] The important role that we can play seems to be that we educate the state government about the importance of having a PREMIER institute on information technology that will produce competent computer software professionals (as opposed to some with "mickey-mouse" training) to compete globally and thereby help attract global IT businesses to Orissa. Orissa can have a distinct advantage in this regard only if the govt quickly preempts other Indian state initiatives to start a high quality IIIT at BBSR in collaboration with some prominent university in the area of computer science in the US. I just saw the US NEWS & WORLD REPORT ranking of Engg colleges (Stanford - 1; Caltech - 2, MIT - 2, UIUC - 2, Berkeley - 2). Electrical and Computer Engg Department rankings are also similar. If any of these Institutions agrees to give a stamp of approval for the curricula at IIIT-BBSR, Orissa will sail very high. Orissa does not seem to have any hope at this stage of getting a collaboration with companies like Microsoft. Some of the senior professors at the ECE department of UIUC are my personal friends at Champaign and can be approached. I have already informed the Orissa State Chief Secretary of the importance of starting an IIIT and feel, if other Oriyas send their letter independently by fax to 011 91 674 400244, it will likely have a resonating effect. I feel a packet of collated letters may not have as strong an effect as a series of independent letters. What is more critical, though, is to stress that the Institute be of very high quality. I will write another letter to the Chief Secretary who is likely to visit Champaign in September and thus can officially initiate a "secret (only to Oriyas)" collaborative effort with UIUC. If the Orissa Government is amenable to the idea of a collaboration, I will open up the dialogue here. Cordially, .==========================================================. | Professor Sankar Acharya | sacharya@uic.edu | | http://credit.fin.uic.edu/ | | | Finance Department (M/C 168) |------------------------| | Unversity of Illnois at Chicago | Office: 2412 UH | | 601 South Morgan Street | Phone: (312) 413 9204 | | Chicago, IL 60607 | FAX: (312) 413 7948 | `==========================================================' From scacad@ori.ori.nic.in Wed Jul 23 00:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from ori.ori.nic.in by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06781; Wed, 23 Jul 97 00:06:06 MDT Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 11:30 GMT Message-Id: <9707231131.AA09333@ori.ori.nic.in> From: scacad@ori.ori.nic.in To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: bbsr Content-Length: 1911 Content-Type: text Status: R My dear chitta babu, I saw a copy of the mail from dmisra. I am extremely happy about your proposals. First about myself, since I guess possibly we might have contact with each other some time. I was in ravenshaw college, math dept, from 1954 to 1963, in rec rourkela (math prof) from 1963 to 1975, in inst of phys bbsr (phys prof) from 1975 to 1994, also emeritus prof there, and since a year, president, orissa science academy. Next, my interest in your circular: I am keenly interested in spread of computer usage (as opposed to course that you envisage) in degree colleges, and in fact every where in orissa. From science academy, whose main function at present is popularisation of science (through an oriya magazine bigyan diganta and otherwise), I have taken steps to establish district science centers in degree colleges in the districts, a process we have started with three/four colleges, and wish to include half a dozen more this year. These colleges already have computers - in fact many colleges have computers now, 386 or 486 or even pentium. (For example, our office has a pentium, a 486, a 386 with the later two having facility for oriya scripts, a scanner, and three printers - dot matrix, color inkjet and a laser printer). As mentioned above, I shall help the district colleges to have email facility. Also, besides this account (stands for science academy with telnet and ftp facility), we also have an uucp account in which I want email to be available for any scientist in bbsr - in fact any scientist who will either use the same here, or shall log in and use the same. I think email is the most important thing as it opens the eyes for professional activities all the world over. I am using the same for more than fifteen years. Since our objectives have some similarity, I guess it shall be useful to be in touch. I wish the best for your endeavours. affly siba (Siba Prasad Misra). From scacad@ori.ori.nic.in Wed Jul 23 00:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from ori.ori.nic.in by cs.utep.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06781; Wed, 23 Jul 97 00:06:06 MDT Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 11:30 GMT Message-Id: <9707231131.AA09333@ori.ori.nic.in> From: scacad@ori.ori.nic.in To: chitta@cs.utep.edu Subject: bbsr Content-Length: 1911 Content-Type: text Status: RO My dear chitta babu, I saw a copy of the mail from dmisra. I am extremely happy about your proposals. First about myself, since I guess possibly we might have contact with each other some time. I was in ravenshaw college, math dept, from 1954 to 1963, in rec rourkela (math prof) from 1963 to 1975, in inst of phys bbsr (phys prof) from 1975 to 1994, also emeritus prof there, and since a year, president, orissa science academy. Next, my interest in your circular: I am keenly interested in spread of computer usage (as opposed to course that you envisage) in degree colleges, and in fact every where in orissa. From science academy, whose main function at present is popularisation of science (through an oriya magazine bigyan diganta and otherwise), I have taken steps to establish district science centers in degree colleges in the districts, a process we have started with three/four colleges, and wish to include half a dozen more this year. These colleges already have computers - in fact many colleges have computers now, 386 or 486 or even pentium. (For example, our office has a pentium, a 486, a 386 with the later two having facility for oriya scripts, a scanner, and three printers - dot matrix, color inkjet and a laser printer). As mentioned above, I shall help the district colleges to have email facility. Also, besides this account (stands for science academy with telnet and ftp facility), we also have an uucp account in which I want email to be available for any scientist in bbsr - in fact any scientist who will either use the same here, or shall log in and use the same. I think email is the most important thing as it opens the eyes for professional activities all the world over. I am using the same for more than fifteen years. Since our objectives have some similarity, I guess it shall be useful to be in touch. I wish the best for your endeavours. affly siba (Siba Prasad Misra).